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tdwoodbury
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Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject: Need help with WRT54GS QoS Clarification Reply with quote Back to top

New to Vonage, not Voip or networking... got my system setup this week and have read through almost every post related to QoS and the WRT54GS. Still having poor quality. Here is my scenario:

I normally work from a home office. That said, I have two pc's (one laptop for work and a desktop for home). Both are connected to the WRT. I maintain a persisten IPSec VPN to work.

My current configuration:
CableModem - > WRT -> Voip

I have the latest firmware on my WRT with QoS enabled. Tried the Voip in front of the WRT, but it was choppy as all get out. Put it behind the WRT and some calls are either staticky or mild choppiness (almost like a really bad cell phone connection). Cant seem to find a happy balance.

QoS on WRT is setup with upstream set to 300, Voip MAC set to highest, and port 4 (VoIP port) set to high. Everything else set to low.

Is the native firmware for the Linksys adequate or do I really need Sveasoftor other?

Bandwidth tests from 16 points across the US show me at 6 down and 270 - 320 up. Vonage bandwidth still at 90 with same performance at 50 or 30.

Need help and some recommendations. When I have no traffic, system works great with the normal Voip hiss. Any kind of upload traffic generates a little bit of chop of a ton of "white noise static", almost like a bad cell connection.

People say my calls make them feel like Carol Anne on Poltergeist... staring at the white noise.

Help?!?!?!?!

Thanks!
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j-card
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Joined: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:27 pm    Post subject: Tricking it is the way to go... Reply with quote Back to top

Ensure that this is Voice QoS, and I would say drop the up speed to >280kb/s and see if that makes any difference...

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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You may have enough bandwidth to get the job done, but too much latency, packet loss, or jitter to do it well.

Try www.testyourvoip.com, which places a test call to the server of your choice using a Java applet. It will rate the quality. Post the results here and someone can help get them nailed down.

I'm not saying that *IS* the problem, only that it might be.

You can always try what j-card suggested and lower the total QoS number, which will help during the periods when your total bandwidth is closer to the 270 you quoted.

If, as a final resort, you go third party... I'd go for HyperWRT. I've had very good luck with it on my WRT54G. Go to www.linksysinfo.com and look in their forums for the "HyperWRT" discussions. It gave me much better QoS performance and tuning options, and other little goodies like working UPnP.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
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tdwoodbury
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Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Went ahead and dropped my upstream to 250 kbps to better match the 80-90% rule. Then I checked two runs to San Jose to get an average performance. The first run came out with the codec resp for 100% loss and the second a much more indicative run with 30% packet discards and longer loss periods with some jitter. Ran another test to Boston and came back with 47% discards and random loss (max 40 instead of 80) and jitter.Any ideas what to tweak or is it on Comcast at this point?

First run:
Results:Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 100.0%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.00 0.0%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Round-Trip
Latency 150 ms
Packet Discards 0.0%
Packet Loss 0.0%

Loss Periods Min: 0 ms
Avg: 0 ms
Max: 0 ms
No Loss

Jitter Min: 0 ms
Avg: 3 ms
Max: 23 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 110 ms
Call Setup Time 120 ms
Media Delay 311 ms


Second run:
MOS Analysis from You TO San Jose
Media Quality MOS 4.2 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)

Degradation Sources
Codec 0.57 70.7%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.24 29.3%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Round-Trip
Latency 180 ms
Packet Discards 1.1%
Packet Loss 0.0%

Loss Periods Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 80 ms
Burst Loss

Jitter Min: 0 ms
Avg: 3 ms
Max: 81 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 110 ms
Call Setup Time 120 ms
Media Delay 291 ms
MOS Analysis FROM San Jose To You
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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Your MOS numbers (which is a "snapshot" quick check number) actually look pretty good. I get crystal clear Vonage calls with the following results:

MOS Analysis from You TO Boston
MOS analysis chart
Media Quality
MOS
4.2 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)


Degradation Sources
Codec 0.57 70.7%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.24 29.3%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%
Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 164 ms
Packet Discards 1.5%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods
Min: 20 ms
Avg: 40 ms
Max: 100 ms
Burst Loss
Jitter
Min: 0 ms
Avg: 6 ms
Max: 101 ms
Signaling Quality
Post-Dial Delay 70 ms
Call Setup Time 100 ms
Media Delay 180 ms

MOS Analysis FROM Boston To You
MOS analysis chart
Media Quality
MOS
4.3 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)


Degradation Sources
Codec 0.57 79.5%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.15 20.5%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%
Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 164 ms
Packet Discards 0.7%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods
Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 40 ms
Random Loss
Jitter
Min: 0 ms
Avg: 2 ms
Max: 30 ms
Signaling Quality
Post-Pickup Delay 86 ms
Call Setup Time 99 ms
Media Delay 118 ms

------------------

I'd say, try making another call to test it with the QoS tweak, or reverse the QoS tweak and re-run the test and see how things come out.

If it doesn't work, or it seems to make an incremental but not a "real" improvement, try lowering the QoS limit just a bit more. You may have very irregular upload speeds.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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j-card
Vonage Forum Senior
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Joined: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:59 pm    Post subject: Testing Up/Down Speeds Reply with quote Back to top

If you want to know what yout US and DS are on average, and at certain periods of time (To monitor peaks and lows) I would suggest getting Line Speed Meter V3.0 and test your speeds 48 times/day, and do some of your own test, comparing your results over different times of day. If your up speeds are sporradic, that could be the problem.

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Please vote on how you would rate your service! Lets see what people really think!
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tdwoodbury
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Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Tried upstream 4 times in increments of 5 from 200 - 280. 235 & 250 kbps gave me the best consistent performance, 250 was about the best in terms of reliability.

Call quality at 250 kbps is about the best I have been able to tweak it to. During normal INET usage the call quality is great. During an ftp up or msx over vpn traffic i get a noticeable chop and static. I simply cant get it "clean". I can understand chop during a heavy upload, but I cant even send a normal 10k email with no attachments without a noticeable infringement on the receivers call quality. (my reception is always flawless)

Will Hyper or any of the other products help more than what I've done?

Packet discard is consistent at 20-40% with minimal loss and ping times sub 40 ms (avg 20). My rating is normally 3.8 - 4.2 with peaks at 4.4.

I'm at a loss on whats left to tweak as my numbers consistently match your results. Will a third party firmware QoS really help anymore?
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Celeron
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: Nov 16, 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You need qos outbound. Thats the only solution. When you start an FTP upload you are going to peg your upstream bandwidth. When this happens you voice traffic has to wait in line for your data traffic to do go through. You don't want this to happen, voice traffic should always get priority.

I would suggest try one of the third party firmwares. Don't bother with HyperWRT, it does nothing for QoS. You will need something a little more extensive, maybe Sveasoft's Alchemy software.

I personally ordered a Cisco 871 so I can take care of this problem. Should be here on Tuesday. That is probably more than you want to spend.
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j-card
Vonage Forum Senior
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Joined: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: 3rd Party QoS Reply with quote Back to top

It may, but I do not use them. I would first ensure that the QoS settings are correct, and if they are, you can try a third party firmware and see if that makes an improvement Cool

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Please vote on how you would rate your service! Lets see what people really think!
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tdwoodbury
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Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing Up/Down Speeds Reply with quote Back to top

j-card wrote:
If you want to know what yout US and DS are on average, and at certain periods of time (To monitor peaks and lows) I would suggest getting Line Speed Meter V3.0 and test your speeds 48 times/day, and do some of your own test, comparing your results over different times of day. If your up speeds are sporradic, that could be the problem.


Weird, I installed the speed meter and it came back with 447 kbps up instead of the 290 or so ive been getting for the past 24 hours with speakeasy, dsl reports, and every other broadband speed test ive tried.
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