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jnuzzi
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Trowski wrote:
Also, if you read your TOS for Vonage, you will see that you agree to not participate in a class action suit.

You shall not bring, or join any class action of any kind in court or in arbitration or seek to consolidate or bring previously consolidated claims in arbitration.

I would be willing to bet that the percentage of people who have not read the TOS is something like 95% (or higher). Very Happy

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Trowski
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I would agree with that number, and maybe even bump it up alittle bit. Wink

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DallasFlier
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Trowski wrote:
As for the TOS, it doesn't prevent legal action, just not joining the into a class action.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, so can't say authoritatively, but I don't think it would prevent you from that either. Again, I don't think that it would be upheld for them to attempt to take away any of your legal rights via language in a TOS statement. I think its a rather brazen scare tactic, no more and no less.

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Trowski
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

DallasFlier wrote:
Trowski wrote:
As for the TOS, it doesn't prevent legal action, just not joining the into a class action.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, so can't say authoritatively, but I don't think it would prevent you from that either. Again, I don't think that it would be upheld for them to attempt to take away any of your legal rights via language in a TOS statement. I think its a rather brazen scare tactic, no more and no less.


Could be...but you know they have most likely had multiple lawyers review that thing...

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DallasFlier
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Trowski wrote:
DallasFlier wrote:
Trowski wrote:
As for the TOS, it doesn't prevent legal action, just not joining the into a class action.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, so can't say authoritatively, but I don't think it would prevent you from that either. Again, I don't think that it would be upheld for them to attempt to take away any of your legal rights via language in a TOS statement. I think its a rather brazen scare tactic, no more and no less.


Could be...but you know they have most likely had multiple lawyers review that thing...

And you think they're above putting it in there just to intimidate people, knowing full well it would never ever stand up for a moment in court, but that it will deter at least SOME from pursuing such an action in the first place? Sure wouldn't be the first time such a thing was done by a company.

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Trowski
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I have two of my laywer buddies taking a look at it today, and will post their thoughts.

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j-card
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Lawsuits, ToS, T&C and all that wonderful BS ;) Reply with quote Back to top

Actually, it does stand up in court. The company who I am employed by has very similar T&C to Vonages ToS. There have been several attempts at small claims and class action suits against our company, and every single time, our lawers walk into the court, drop the T&C on the table and walk out. I am sure if you read through, you will find that most of your service providers really are not responsible for much.

My company, for example, does not have to provide any service, at any point in time, anywhere, and you are still required to pay your bill. They are not responsible for anything that is published by their company, can change plans and rates at any point in time, without informing you (and you are still stuck with your contract), and in no way are accountable for anything a rep tells you about anything. Oh, and they dont have to deal with billing errors. You pay what we charge you.

Thats worst case scenerio, and if they followed that, they wouldnt have any customers, but if a customer calls me and is verbally abusive on the phone, I can give them a charge for pissing me off, or even cancel their acct.

Its amazing what this world has come to...

Pray that I dont work for your mobile provider and that you don't talk to me if you want credits Wink I have the fewest credits given in our entire centre! 3months, 13 days and not a cent has left the accts Cool

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DallasFlier
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Trowski wrote:
I have two of my laywer buddies taking a look at it today, and will post their thoughts.

I'll be interested to hear what they say - as I say, I'm sure not a lawyer, but I know of other cases where large companies have tried to limit consumer's access to legal redress and it hasn't stood up.

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EzCo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Lawsuits, ToS, T&C and all that wonderful BS ;) Reply with quote Back to top

j-card wrote:
My company, for example, does not have to provide any service, at any point in time, anywhere, and you are still required to pay your bill.


And you're still in business?
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DallasFlier
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Lawsuits, ToS, T&C and all that wonderful BS ;) Reply with quote Back to top

j-card wrote:
Actually, it does stand up in court. The company who I am employed by has very similar T&C to Vonages ToS. There have been several attempts at small claims and class action suits against our company, and every single time, our lawers walk into the court, drop the T&C on the table and walk out.

Uh huh, you betcha - and they let their call center operators go to court to see this, or they sent you all a memo detailing that "our lawers (sic) walk into the court, drop the T&C on the table and walk out" or what? I'll guarantee you they don't "walk into the court, drop the T&C on the table and walk out" unless they want to end up cooling their heels in the local lockup for contempt of court.

j-card wrote:
Oh, and they dont have to deal with billing errors. You pay what we charge you.

if a customer calls me and is verbally abusive on the phone, I can give them a charge for pissing me off

I'm not sure what you're smoking, but it must be pretty potent stuff.

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