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SteveD
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

i.e. why do I need to worry about packet discards?

How the hell am I supposed to fix that!!!!!!!

Do you have any idea how embarrasing it is to try to conduct business with new clients and have the phone call dropped? This happens almost 100% of the time. That is cos

100% dropped call rate = not readyt for primetime
NO CUSTOMER SERVICE RESPONSE = not ready for primetime

having to manually restart all the Vonage routers after a power interuption = not ready for primetime

Not being able to get dial tone or getting a fast busy = not ready for primetime.

Having people call me and not getting through = not ready for primetime

Vocie mail forwarding to email only working on one out of 3 lines without any help depsite many phonecalls and messages to Vonage = not ready for primetime.

Being on the road and having the routers not startup correctly = not ready for primetime.

If you are single and childless and do not conduct business on the telephone and no one ever needs to call you with timely info then Vonage is a good deal.

I will only use Skype for international calls home.
I would love to be able to save money with Vonage, but it is still too much of a kludge.

Steve
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Trowski
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That is your ISP's issue then...And you can call them and get them to get on the ball and fix it.

I conduct business on my Vonage line, and since I don't have those discards I don't have your issue. My home and work line are both Vonage, I do have a child, and hell I am using a hotel's wireless connection right now and my Vonage phones are working great.

Customer service can only do so much as Voip is only as good as the line it is carried on. Trouble with the ISP, trouble with Voip. Not Vonage's issue=already Primetime.

All Vonage routers do not have to be reset after a power interuption. Mine come right back up.=already Primetime.

1,000,00 customers for Vonage, they have to be doing something right=already Primetime.

Is Vonage perfect? Heck no, but to say they are not ready for prime time with your situation is not true. Vonage cannot tweak your ISP's line, only the ISP can.

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SteveD
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You miss my point.

The chances of getting the cable company to fix anything is about the same as getting Vonage to respond to a customer service request.

I am glad your routers come up automatically , mine don't.

whehter it is Vonage's fault or the ISP's fault, Vonage is not tolerant of a real world in home network. That = not ready for primetime.

Its nice if it works under ideal conditions but no product enjoys the luxury of "ideal" conditions. A product that is ready for primetime is one that works in the normal environment.

I am a EE and have a modest understanding of networking and routers but I am not a guru. Perhaps if I had nothing else to do I could spend enough time making all this stuff work. As it is I need to spend more time on other things that actually make me more money than they cost. As a person who works from home my phone line performance is critical. Vonage does not provide fault tolerant service.

I understand that the packet loss issuue is due to my ISP and not Vonage's fault. But Vonage needs to make a more robust product.
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Trowski
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SteveD wrote:
You miss my point.

The chances of getting the cable company to fix anything is about the same as getting Vonage to respond to a customer service request.

I am glad your routers come up automatically , mine don't.

whehter it is Vonage's fault or the ISP's fault, Vonage is not tolerant of a real world in home network. That = not ready for primetime.

Its nice if it works under ideal conditions but no product enjoys the luxury of "ideal" conditions. A product that is ready for primetime is one that works in the normal environment.

I am a EE and have a modest understanding of networking and routers but I am not a guru. Perhaps if I had nothing else to do I could spend enough time making all this stuff work. As it is I need to spend more time on other things that actually make me more money than they cost. As a person who works from home my phone line performance is critical. Vonage does not provide fault tolerant service.

I understand that the packet loss issuue is due to my ISP and not Vonage's fault. But Vonage needs to make a more robust product.


I don't miss your point. Your customer service request can be fixed by Vonage. So how can they respond to something that is out of their span of control?

In that case, when cars go down less than ideal roads and get a flat, do you blame Ford etc for not having more robust tires on them since you are going down a road with tons of pot holes as opposed to a road in good condition? No.

I, plus many others, are using in home networks. But it is Voip in general that is reliant upon good backbones. If you miss so packets due to discards, what is Vonage supposed to do? Build a router that inteprets what those missing packets are? That would be ridiculous.

In a normal environment Vonage and Voip works very well. But your environment is sub-par.

I am in sales, and have little experience with network except for what I have learned online. Vonage can only be so fault tolerant before it is unfixable. Same thing with any product or service.

You gave it a try, realize that the issue realize isn't Vonage'as, but yet you still want to take some parting shots saying their product should be more robust. Come on. You are frustrated, but it is your ISP that is not ready for primetime my friend.

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paul248
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Joined: Nov 25, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

From the results you posted, I don't see any problem with your ISP. You've got 0% packet loss, and the 1% packet discards are just caused by the occasional jitter, which nearly everyone has.
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Steve48
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

paul248 wrote:
From the results you posted, I don't see any problem with your ISP. You've got 0% packet loss, and the 1% packet discards are just caused by the occasional jitter, which nearly everyone has.


He's posted 20 and 32% discards so far.

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Steve Gray
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Steve48
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SteveD wrote:
100% dropped call rate = not readyt for primetime


Yes and no. It's a fact that Voip depends utterly on both the ISP and the Voip provider. If either is flaky, then you won't get good service, and if it's two different providers you've got a problem. In that sense, Voip may never be ready for prime time. If, on the other hand, the ISP is solid, then the Voip provider can make the big time or not, depending on his service.

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Steve Gray
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urfe8920
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Joined: Nov 21, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I posted the original issue, and the reponses have been educational. It's good to know I am not the only one with these issues.

I am still getting some dropped calls, but not nearly as bad as what I was having 2 or 3 weeks ago. I think what made the biggest difference was just powering down all the systems for several minutes and starting them up again. With Vonage needing the connection always on, I had not turned off the modem at all in several weeks, so this may have been part of the problem.

One question I still have is regarding monitoring tools. People have posted many links to online tests that tell you the instantaneous state of your connection, and these are useful (and mine always come back with no problem). But what I would like is to be able to determine what went wrong after a call has dropped. Was it the router, the modem, the signal from the ISP dropping or something else? Is anyone aware of such a tool that would constantly monitor and then log what is going on?

I have a feeling that either my modem or router might be the problem, but I am not going to invest in new hardware unless I know where the problem is.
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urfe8920
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Steve48 wrote:
paul248 wrote:
From the results you posted, I don't see any problem with your ISP. You've got 0% packet loss, and the 1% packet discards are just caused by the occasional jitter, which nearly everyone has.


He's posted 20 and 32% discards so far.


Steve, I think this means that 20-32% of the deg sources are coming from packet discards, not that 20-32% of the packets are discarded. The overalll packet discards were around 1%, and this seems to be normal from what I can tell.
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aldamon
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Joined: May 13, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

We're having the same problem. I was told by Level 2 support that the packetization level setting on our account is causing the problem. We have it set to 10 so our CPI security system will work with Vonage. Support told me a new company is handling the routing of our calls and cannot handle the packetlization level set to 10 so our voice calls are being terminated by the system.

So I have to choose between keeping it at 10 for our security to work or switch it to 20 to fix the voice calls. Very frustrating.
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