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blather
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Joined: Nov 12, 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Actually, CS told me that the "no paying for returns" was a recent policy change--if it's in the terms of service they've ignored it in the past and did, up until recently, send prepaid return shipping labels with return. This is pure greed.
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ColdGin
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Joined: Oct 03, 2005
Posts: 423

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You're right, the section with return does pertain to service cancellations, however I did find this tidbit:

2.13 Ownership and Risk of Loss. You will own the Device and bear all risk of loss of, theft of, casualty to or damage to the Device, from the time it is shipped to you until the time (if any) when it is returned to us in accordance with this Agreement.

If you own something, is it someone else's responsibility for shipping it somewhere? Since, I couldn't find anything in the TOS stating that Vonage would under any circumstances issue a return label, ever, for anyone.

In fact, in the terms of service I just read, everywhere it even mentions shipping charges it's talking about the customer paying them, the only excepton being when the customer gets it refunded because he canceled withing the Money back guarantee period.

Hey I think it **** too - I'm not happy with it either. Customers get crummy routers and they have to pay to get them sent back. The fact is this policy changed because it was being abused.
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Steve48
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Joined: Aug 30, 2005
Posts: 4777

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ColdGin wrote:
You're right, the section with return does pertain to service cancellations, however I did find this tidbit:

2.13 Ownership and Risk of Loss. You will own the Device and bear all risk of loss of, theft of, casualty to or damage to the Device, from the time it is shipped to you until the time (if any) when it is returned to us in accordance with this Agreement.

If you own something, is it someone else's responsibility for shipping it somewhere?


In a word, sometimes. If you buy merchandise by mail order, and pay for shipping, and the merchandise turns out to be defective, isn't it the responsibility of the vendor to pay the costs of replacement, including shipping? I say it is, and that seems to be the situation here. The Vonage customer pays for initial shipping, but shouldn't have to pay more if the adapter proves to be defective.

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Steve Gray
Orlando, FL
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Mr_Sorento
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Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 122
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ColdGin,

No offense, but I think that is a far stretch for Vonage to stake their claim on and use to make their point. I'm not blaming you and I hear just how upset you are (like the rest of us). It seems as though Vonage has made a lot of "changes in policy" in the past 2 months and each change seems to have been worse for existing customer or for new ones. I've "preached" about this very thing in several posts on this board and believe I've made my point. However, it seems that this particular change is doing nothing but causing good, loyal customers to get frustrated and possibly even leave all because Vonage is not willing to pay for a $5.00 or $10.00 return shipping fee on a device that they sent that was likely bad to begin with. You mention it was changed because the former policy was being abused. With all due respect, it seems the only way this policy could have been abused is if a CS or a Tech rep allowed it to be. In other words, ultimately, it's the CS or Tech rep's responsibility to do thorough troubleshooting with the customer to determine something is wrong. Then, if the device is sent back (courtesy of Vonage) and it ends up with nothing being wrong with it, but rather just a customer trying to upgrade to the latest router for free, perhaps then Vonage should charge that particular customer for making a false claim. In other words, take care of the possible abusers out there individually, rather than making a blanket policy affecting the good, honest customers. Bad business decision and bad customer service Vonage!

ColdGin, I saw your "office cam" and I know you probably get "beat up" everyday with customers calling in. I commend you for your work and your service. Likewise, I suspect you all have some means to get feedback to senior management from customers. Perhaps you could let them know to stop being so greedy and focus instead on good customer service. Whatever they lose in pennies over time, they will more than make-up for in the long run with continuing business and new business. I think the old saying is "You have to spend money to make money". In other words, Vonage may have to eat the costs on a few things now and then, but in the long run, that's sometimes the price for providing VERY GOOD Customer Service.

Thanks for listening to my rant.


Steve48 -- I completely agree!

_________________
Mr. Sorento Smile
ISP: Charter Cable - 30 Mbps Down / 4M Up

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ColdGin
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Joined: Oct 03, 2005
Posts: 423

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Mr Sorento,

I am glad you liked my office cam! Some days are better than others here, let's just say. And in the summer it was 92 degrees in here, the new building looks straight out of War Games or something, so that should be nice.

You are right again, the policy was abused by reps and by customers alike. It was meant to be given out in cases where a new customer got a bad device, or in cases of fraud, or in cases where the customer had exceptional difficulties (3 bad devices in a row, etc.) This is what my training was.

Customers started learning they could get a new router and some months of free service, basically by calling in and reporting the 'right' symptoms. So whether they had problems or not, when a new device came out they would call up and get one shipped, and get Vonage to pay for shipping their device back whether it was bad or not.

Then someone looked at how much we were giving out in shipping fees and credit (I believe it was over 5 figures per month) and said "Oh hellllll no."

I don't agree with it, remember I am a Vonage customer also, and was before I worked here. I don't get asked for opinions on major decisions (India call center? Yes or No? What do you guys think?)
and this was one I would have said "Yeah, give em the labels for gods sake."

It is a far stretch as far as "You own the device." Steve48 is right. If you buy something mail order, pay for shipping, and then it's broken, you shouldn't have to pay to get it back to the schmoes who sent you broken gear.

It stinks, but it's policy and the fact is its not likely to change. Mad
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blather
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Nov 12, 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Who do you complain to? Reply with quote Back to top

ColdGin, thanks for your input here. The point raised about CS causing some of the issue is a good one, too--at no point in my conversations with CS did they mention that I had to pay to ship old defective routers back--and they were the ones who made the offer of a new router to begin with!

You say that the policy is unlikely to change. I agree in that I've been unable in multiple e-mails and calls to actually reach anyoneone who is in management (see my previous post--I was actually given non-functioning e-mail addresses), or even someone who has the power to issue labels. Does anyone know how to contact someone who actually has the authority to address this?

If management does not hear complaints, they'll never know if there's a problem....
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PTB
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Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Update:

I got my 3rd router and I STILL HAVE THE SAME ISSUES!!!!

However, after speaking with my 3rd CSR from India, he told me that it's perhaps my cable company that may be the problem. He said some companies have firewalls that may block DNS recognition.
My Cable company is Patriot Media of Central, NJ. Does anyone else here have them, or have had problems using Vonage with them? If the CSR was correct about some companies blocking access, is there a post somewhere that lists these companies?

Anyway, CSR#3's remedy was what CSR#2 gave me, and that was to force a Preferred and Alternate DNS entry, and not to worry about it.

Which I did, and I'm not. As you can see, I'm online, and my phone works.

I'm going to ship he 2nd modem back, and as I said in an earlier post, I already got a $10 credit towards my 1st bill.

I went thru the home networking procedure and now my whole house has it. The only other thing I had to do was by a phone jack splitter so the phone near my Vonage adapter could be used.
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Texx
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Joined: May 12, 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I don't know all the steps that the CSR's gave you, but if you wouldn't mind trying something.....

bypass the router and hook directly up to the modem.

making sure your computer is set to DHCP and can pull and IP from your ISP

1-> open a command prompt
2-> do an ipconfig /all
3-> write down the DNS servers given to you.
4-> type "nslookup yahoo.com <DNS IP here> <return>
That should give you something like this:
Quote:

Server: vnsc-bak.sys.gtei.net Address: 4.2.2.2 Non-authoritative answer: Name: yahoo.com Addresses: 66.94.234.13, 216.109.112.135


This means that your computer can resolve DNS.
If you get this instead:
Quote:
DNS request timed out. timeout was 2 seconds. *** Can't find server name for address 4.2.2.9: Timed out Server: UnKnown Address: 4.2.2.9 DNS request timed out. timeout was 2 seconds. DNS request timed out. timeout was 2 seconds. *** Request to UnKnown timed-out

Then there is either your computer is having difficulties resolving names, or the ISP is having issues. Try it with the DNS IP of 4.2.2.2 instead and see if that still fails.

5-> hook your computer back up behind the router
6-> do an ipconfig /release and a /renew.
7-> do an ipconfig /all and check what DNS server are being given to you.
8-> If they are the same, do another nslookup using both DNS IP's and see if it fails. If they are different, try it with all of them. Your ISP may be blocking DNS requests to all servers but their own, and that would cause the forced DNS to fail as well.

9-> post here and let me know what happened.

These steps are set for XP, and should also work with Linux. I don't know if other versions of windows will work with them.
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PTB
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Joined: Nov 12, 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I did try many of the steps you mention.

Again, I had no problem getting to the Net BEFORE I hooked up the Vonage Modem. When I took the 1st Modem off and connected my cable modem back to my PC, I had no problems and I did not have to set a preferred and alternate DNS.

I'm a bit confused in your step between #4 and #5 when you say
Quote:
"Try it with the DNS IP of 4.2.2.2 instead and see if that still fails.


Do you mean to enter that in as my Preferred DNS?

I've already done that and that's why I'm able to use the Web now.

Please clarify that step.

I will try it again later this eveving and let you know what happened.
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Texx
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: May 12, 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry, I didn't make that quite as clear as I meant too.

nslookup yahoo.com 4.2.2.2

4.2.2.2 is a popular DNS server that works as a good backup.

The reason I'm asking about your DNS servers is to make sure the router is not passing the wrong information back to your computer, or to see if your ISP is not using routable IPs as their DNS servers (rare, but I've seen ISPs do stranger things). If the IP is not routable, the adapter will just drop the request.
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