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Trowski
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Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 1389
Location: Putnam, CT

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

mmroberts,
I do feel your pain. But, there has been suggestions as to why it may not work, or to get it to work you will have to shell out quite a bit of money.

I would be more than happy to help, and you can PM me if you want to call here and test the lines..thats not a problem.

Lets start with this...
Go to www.testyourvoip.com and do a test call to Boston. Once it is done, you will see a Detailed Results button that will show the latency, jitter etc for both to and from Boston. Could you cut and paste those numbers here?

_________________
-------------------------------------
Eastern Connecticut Cable--WRT54G---RTP300--Uniden True 8866
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mmroberts
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Here it is.

MOS Analysis from You TO the Target Location
MOS analysis chart
Media Quality
MOS
2.2 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)


Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 20.8%
Latency 1.75 63.3%
Packet Discards 0.44 15.8%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%
Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 2110 ms
Packet Discards 1.7%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods
Min: 80 ms
Avg: 120 ms
Max: 180 ms
Burst Loss
Jitter
Min: 0 ms
Avg: 30 ms
Max: 272 ms
Signaling Quality
Post-Dial Delay 2031 ms
Call Setup Time 2031 ms
Media Delay 3766 ms

MOS Analysis FROM the Target Location To You
MOS analysis chart
Media Quality
MOS
1.3 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)


Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 15.7%
Latency 1.74 47.5%
Packet Discards 0.73 19.8%
Packet Loss 0.62 17.0%
Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 2110 ms
Packet Discards 2.1%
Packet Loss 1.8%
Loss Periods
Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 140 ms
Burst Loss
Jitter
Min: 4 ms
Avg: 19 ms
Max: 105 ms
Signaling Quality
Post-Pickup Delay 1825 ms
Call Setup Time 1828 ms
Media Delay 1856 ms
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mmroberts
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

How do these numbers compare with DSL and cable. Can someone on "real" broadband run the same test and post the results?
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navydavy2001
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Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 1125
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ISP: COMCAST HSI (Cable)

Location: Philadelphia, PA

TO Boston:

MOS: 4.3 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)

Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 86.1%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.09 13.9%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 100 ms
Packet Discards 0.5%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 40 ms
Random Loss

Jitter Min: 1 ms
Avg: 7 ms
Max: 48 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 63 ms
Call Setup Time 78 ms
Media Delay 219 ms

From Boston:

MOS 4.4 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)

Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 100.0%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.00 0.0%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 100 ms
Packet Discards 0.0%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 0 ms
Avg: 0 ms
Max: 0 ms
No Loss

Jitter Min: 4 ms
Avg: 7 ms
Max: 20 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Pickup Delay 138 ms
Call Setup Time 125 ms
Media Delay 170 ms

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mmroberts
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:36 am    Post subject: Pretty big difference Reply with quote Back to top

Well, the number sure do vary (and not in my favor, I would imagine). Unfortunately I don't know a lot about what that tells me. What about it Trowski?
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Trowski
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Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 1389
Location: Putnam, CT

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Pretty big difference Reply with quote Back to top

mmroberts wrote:
Well, the number sure do vary (and not in my favor, I would imagine). Unfortunately I don't know a lot about what that tells me. What about it Trowski?


Others can help me if I get off track, but the biggest difference is the latency and media/setup times. I also don't have alot of time this AM but this is what I see...

Latency
A measure of the delay in a call. We measure both the round-trip delay between when information leaves point A and when a response is returned from point B, and the one-way delay between when something was spoken and when it was heard. The largest contributor to latency is caused by network transmission delay. Round-trip latency affects dynamics of conversation and is used in our MOS calculations. One-way latency is used for diagnosing network problems.

With round trip latencies above 300 msec or so, users may experience annoying talk-over effects.


From You to the Testing Location:

Post-Dial Delay is the time it takes, after you've dialed, for the phone you're calling to ring.
Call Setup Delay is the full time it takes to setup the call and receive an acknowledgement from the far end that it has accepted the call. Call setup delay includes post-dial delay.
Media Delay includes the full call setup time plus the time it takes to receive the first packet of media (conversation). Media Delay includes both call setup delay and post-dial delay.

From the Testing Location to You:

Post-Pickup Delay is the time that elapses between answering the call and receiving the first packet of media (conversation).
Call Setup Delay is the time from receiving the request for the call until the final acknowledgment from the caller that the call setup has been successfully completed.
Media Delay is the time between receiving the intial call notification request to receiving the first media packet (conversation). Media Delay includes both the call setup delay and post-pickup delay.
Note, that our call setup and media delay measurements incorporate the effects of network impairments and signaling infrastructure (that is, the delays you care about) but do not reflect any delay in answering the call that might be injected by a slow user.


So what does it all mean. With some of the packet loss, even though it may seem nominal, on top of the latency is what is wrecking your score and your call. You can compare they two numbers and see how they are much different.

Here is what I am getting on the hotel wireless connection I am on now...

MOS Analysis from You TO Boston

Media Quality MOS 4.4 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)



Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 100.0%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.00 0.0%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 152 ms
Packet Discards 0.0%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 0 ms
Avg: 0 ms
Max: 0 ms
No Loss

Jitter Min: 1 ms
Avg: 5 ms
Max: 14 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 109 ms
Call Setup Time 125 ms
Media Delay 265 ms
MOS Analysis FROM Boston To You

Media Quality MOS 4.4 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)



Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 100.0%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.00 0.0%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 152 ms
Packet Discards 0.0%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 0 ms
Avg: 0 ms
Max: 0 ms
No Loss

Jitter Min: 4 ms
Avg: 7 ms
Max: 20 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Pickup Delay 127 ms
Call Setup Time 128 ms
Media Delay 157 ms


Some of the more knowledable here could really break it down more for you...but you can see the difference in the scores.

_________________
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gedvil
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Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: Problems with outgoing calls but Incoming calls work well Reply with quote Back to top

Hello guys,
I am glad that you show interests in this thread. My purpose is: I have a line that I pay for and it must work well. I have a Linksys RT31P2 with firmware version 1.30.01 and Voice Version: 3.1.6(LI). Voip over satellite (direcway) works, until August this year my Vonage had been working over 1 year and half without problem, now my net2phone (PC to Phone - Commcenter) is working perfectly over my DW6000. The only problem with net2phone if you make a huge number of calls it's not economical.

I spoke to a friend in the carribean, he thinks that many call centers in this region are using Vonage over Satellite to make a high volume of calls and have a plan with unlimited calls. It's not economical for the company. He thinks the engineers use a configuration to block these people. You have noticed that the problem began with calls going to Florida. And day after day, more area codes were affected.

I want you tell me what do you think about this opinion...

Ged
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mmroberts
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Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That sounds like a plausable theory. I think we all agree that it was a change in the DirecWay system that caused our woes. I have talked to DirecWay support and they are just not interested in talking about VSAT.

Now if your theory were true, I have a question to throw out there. If people were indeed using Direcway to make large numbers of calls, how could that hurt DirecWay? They still have the FAP limits to keep bandwidth under control and if someone is paying for a huge bucket, then why would DW care what it was used for? In the end it is all bandwidth and since the great FAP god in they sky is watching every link, this should never be an issue.

I am finally throwing in the towel today and giving up on running Vonage over my DirecWay system. I am running up on the end of my 30-day money back guarantee period and am no closer than I was. If anyone finds a service that meets the following critera, please let me know:

* Makes clear inbound and outbound calls over VSAT (specifically DirecWay). 1/2 - 1 second latency delays are expected though.
* Does not cost more than land lines to use.
* Allows the use of a handset without requiring Windows (or any PC at all for that matter)
* Can make calls to and receive them from POTS land lines.

If you are searching these forums for information on using Voip on DirecWay (especially Vonage), it is my highly researched opinion that you are wasting your time with it. If you just need an incoming line, it works pretty well. If you need to make calls from it, it just isn't going to work. So if you are, for example, planning to run a POS terminal over DirecWay using a dial-up service through Vonage you are not going to be able to pull it off.

Hopefully this information will soon be obsolete and DirecWay will fix whatever is causing this problem.

Thanks for all of the advice and help. You folks have been great.

M@
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gedvil
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Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Problems with outgoing calls but Incoming calls work well Reply with quote Back to top

Hi guys,
Happy new year... is there any improvement in using Vonage on Direcway ? My Vonage continues to work well on some area codes for outgoing calls and all incoming calls work well.
I hear that pacquet8 is working well over DW7000. Since I think that this problem will not be solved soon. I want to take a decision. Please let me know what is working well on the DW7000.

I have a DW7000 on G4R...

Gedvil
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mmroberts
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject: Gave up. Reply with quote Back to top

I tried and tried and tried to get this resolved but never could. I thought I was getting somewhere when I got what seemed to be a very knowledgable person on the line at Vonage, but he tried the same things with the same results. In the end I gave up and cancelled my service.

If you are planning to use Vonage with Direcway, it just doesn't work as of this time (Jan, 2006). It is fine for incoming calls, but if you need to place outgoing calls it will not work. Period. Please don't waste your time on it.

I really wanted this to work so I worked on it for over two months. I have both a satellite and networking background, talked many times with both DirecWay and Vonage, argued with them about the problem NOT being latency, and never did get a clear outgoing call. If there is a solution, neither Vonage or DirecWay is (pick one:) interested or smart enough to figure out what it is.

If anyone finds something that does work well (as in reliable and clear) over DW, please let us know. I will be waiting.

M@
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