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mmroberts
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, I am experiencing the exact same problem. I can receive calls and they are amazingly clear both ways. But if I make a call, my receive audio is exceptional while the transmit audio is so choppy that it cannot be understood by the person I am calling.

This presents a difficult problem because the tendency that I have seen with this particular problem on the other forums is that Vonage dismisses is as a DirecWay problem while DirecWay dismisses it as a Vonage problem. So the user...the person paying both companies for service, is left in the middle with no recourse. It is getting pretty frustrating.

I would like to challenge someone at Vonage support to pick this problem up and run with it. DirecWay doesn't need me on the phone, they need a knowledgable Vonage networking specialist on the line.

I really, really, really want my Vonage service to work with my DirecWay system. I think that both Vonage and DirecWay would greatly benefit from following this problem through to the end and getting it resolved because there are a lot of DirecWay customers out there who really need Voip service...folks who have no land lines available and no other option.

Anyone at Vonage up to the challenge? Please give DirecWay a call and get a real network engineer at the Network Operations Center on the line. Otherwise, I will have to drop my service because I can't use it as it is. I am sure that there are many, many other users who either have already dropped or soon will be dropping Vonage for this exact reason.

If a Vonage engineer is up to the challenge and needs a user with a satellite connection to test with, please let me know in this forum. I will get you a phone number to call me at.

Thanks,

M@
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cgallo
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Aug 10, 2005
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Not many people know about this, but there is a 10 second ramp up time for the transmitter. This means that you are not getting your full bandwidth for up to 10 seconds. You will mainly notice this on calling out and not so much on receiving calls. That is on top of fighting for bandwidth of all the other users on that same transponder. In order for this to work better you need at least a 256k up. I am not sure if Directway has a Committed Information Rate. If they do, then ask what they offer. This will also help with Voip. I would also check to see if they have any type of QoS. If they do, have them put priority on your Voip. I would also set your bandwidth to the lowest setting 30k.

The only way around this is to get a dedicated circuit. The problem with that is a dedicated circuit costs a lot of money. A dedicated circuit will give you 100% of your bandwidth all of the time.

I work with this issue daily. I work for a company who installs and services satellite systems. We also have about 25 locations that are using Voip. All of the sites use Voip successfully and most can fax successfully.

This is not a Vonage issue it is a Direcway issue. Don't let them tell you otherwise. Bandwidth is oversubscribed for satellite way more than a hard connection.
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mmroberts
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:46 pm    Post subject: Not so sure about that Reply with quote Back to top

10 second ramp-up time for the transmitter? Maybe when it first powers up, but not everytime it starts to transmit.

The thing to keep in mind here is that Voip is not like POTS. It rides on the existing network link. If your modem is locked on the carrier (i.e. all lights are lit on the modem), your transmitter is already up and running and is constantly passing data back and forth just to stay in the network. Actually It has to be to even gain access to the network. So I don't think that there is any "spin up" time when a call is being made. The carrier frequency is already established.

It is something else, as you mentioned it has pretty much got to be at the DW NOC.

I also don't think it is an issue of overutalization of the satellite. While this very well may be the practice of DW, my uplink and downlink datarates are way beyond the minimum required for Voip.

In talking with some Cisco certified VIOP folks I work with, they seem pretty sure that the problem lies in the initiation of the outbound routing. That would explain the problem only showing up when I make a call, not when I receive it. They seem to think that there is either no Quality of Service (QoS) enabled on the voice gateway or it is intentionally being throttled on outbound calls.

I guess it is logical that the outbound call routing would be different in the Network Operations Control center than the inbound. With outbound calls, the link has to be established at DirecWay, whereas on an inbound, the link is already initiated when it gets to the Voip gateway at DirecWay. So it looks like the problem is in the outbound call routing initialization path.

Any of you network gurus feel free to pick it up and run with it at any point. I am getting outside of what I understand.

M@
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cgallo
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Joined: Aug 10, 2005
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The ramp up is used to save on power and bandwidth. This is the same for all TDMA satellite connections. DW is using a TDMA setup. I have done may tests with Voip and different bandwidth settings. I have experienced what you are talking about. Do you ever get a fast busy signal and if so how often? Do you know or can you check your bit error rate? If not can DW check it for you? Do you lose any packets doing a ping test?

We are currently running Voip on iDirect and LinkStar. iDirect has no issues running Voip as it was built to do so. iDirect is the only product out there that was built from the ground up with Voip, video, and data in mind. LinkStar runs Voip well, but it still has issues. There is a lack of QoS implementation and a higher required bandwidth.

I still think its a bandwidth issue.
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mmroberts
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well, the reason I hesitate to attribute it to bandwidth is that my inbound calls are all great, both send and receive. If it were bandwidth, wouldn't the problem show up no matter which side initiated the call?
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cgallo
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Joined: Aug 10, 2005
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well you would think that would be the case. Satellite connections have a weird way of dealing with bandwidth. Now I am not totally sure how DW deals with this, but it is most likely similar to others. A few for examples are BoD and CIR.. BoD is simple, if you request bandwidth and its there you will get it. CIR is committed information rate, and this is a similar to BoD but this is allocated before BoD is calculated. CIR is pretty much dedicated bandwidth. This is why it is very important to have CIR if you are using Voip.

When you receive a call the request for bandwidth is in much sooner. This will give you the bandwidth you need for that call. When you place a call you request the bandwidth the call and request happen at the same time. You will need to wait for the bandwidth then. Does the call get better at all the longer you are on the phone when you call out?

Could you do a ping test and let me know the results? I would suggest to ping a DNS server for DW if you can get that information. If you cant get that information can you get an internal IP to ping to? I want to know if the pings are constant and if you are losing any packets. Do a continuous ping for at least one minute if you can.
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mmroberts
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I will run a series of pings when I get home tonight and post the results.
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Mr_Sorento
Vonage Forum Senior
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Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 122
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Everybody,

I don't know how much this is a DirecWay problem versus a Vonage problem. In my case, I was continuing to have problems and I called up and spoke with a rep last week and he moved my phone line from the Line1 port to the Line2 port. Additionally, he moved me from the proxy server I was on to a regular server that he said he know works good. Ever since then, my outbound calls have been much better, clearer, and more like normal. He told me that for the past couple of months Vonage has been setting up new proxy servers to handle the very much increased new call volume lately. Sooooooo, with all of this said, I would call up and try to get a hold of a more experienced tech and ask them to move you from your current proxy server (which more than likely your on right now) and move you to a "real" call server and then see how things go for you. This will be a much easier and quicker test rather than chasing down techs to run network analysis and other tests (that probably won't get done by anybody anyways).

Also, have you ever had good outbound calls at all in the past with your current setup? And if so, when did you start having these outbound problems?

_________________
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mmroberts
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That sounds like a good idea. I will give that a try.

I am a new Vonage customer, so it has never worked for me.
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mmroberts
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Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

DirecWay was having network problems last night because of weather at the NOC (apparently they don't have a geographically separate facility for such cases) so I was not able to do any real ping tests. I don't think they would have been very meaningful considering I was getting upload and download speeds of less than 100 Kbs. Even so pings to google.com were around 800-1100 ms.

I did call Vonage support though. Despite what I have read in these forums they were very quick to answer (less than 30 seconds) and the tech I got seemed fairly knowledgable. I was hoping there was some sort of packet size or buffering that they could set to compensate for something in the satellite link. About all he did is change the modem's packet size from 30 to 20 (Kbs, I assume) which didn't seem to help at all. He did give me a phone number to call to test it with and my voice was still very choppy.

Interestingly he called me and my voice was STILL choppy. I have not had this problem before so I am giving a little more consideration to the assertion that it may be bandwidth related since I know that available bandwidth was low last night. I am going to call from work and see if it is back to normal on inbound. If it is, that will make me lean towards a lack of bandwidth (or extreme latency) as the problem.

More info as I get it.

M@
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