CLI stops working ?

Posts: 71 · Full Forum Member Joined: Jul 19, 2005 Posts: 71

Hi all, below is a message I posted in the Skype forum relating to CLI and a particular DECT cordless phone I use the "Dualphone" www.dualphone.net.

The problems revolves around CLI working then not working in t he UK, this sounds similar to the problem you are describing here in the US, my ATA is a linksys RTP31P2
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Hi All,

I have noticed a problem with CLI that might be related to the Dualphone and am interested to hear if anyone else has experienced similar.

Skype on my Dualphone is fine and one the landline side of the Dualphone I had been using a BT landline until recently.

I have been experimenting with Vonage recently so have the landline side of the Dualphone pluged into a Vonage Linksys ATA. On imcoming Vonage calls CLI is fine for a while then seems to die. If I power off the ATA or the Dualphone base it makes no difference, still no CLI. If I now plug a hardwired BT telephone into the ATA I see CLI, plug the dualpone back in and no CLI.

If I now plug my Dualphone into my BT landline and ring it I see CLI again, put the Dualphone back into the Vonage ATA and it bursts back into life again with CLI.

As you can see from above you can point the finger in either direction. The config of my Vonage ATA is correct with regard to CLI. Vonage have offered to change the ATA but I am not convinced this is the issue.

As mentioned previously I would be interested if anyone has seen problems with the Dualphone displaying CLI.

Regards,

Paul

Posts: 76 · Vonage Forum Senior Joined: Oct 17, 2005 Posts: 76

Not sure I can be much help on the specifics but I've seen flakey CLID too. I have a modem connected to the Vonage line which reads the caller id and transmits it to every PC in the house (Nice little program called 'Yac' for anyone interested.) I've still not got to the bottom of it but I'm seeing it work for a while then die also. I've also seen the characteristics of my Vonage line vary with time. Last night, two phones connected to the line had flickering call waiting lights (which shouldn't work anyway as they are the PABX type). This morning, nothing. My guess is that either the box is trying to be clever and detect which protocols to use or Vonage are playing around with different firmware / settings trying to get it working for everyone. I'll post more once I find out if my caller id is working still this evening (I spent a good while playing with it last night and seemed to get it to be stable).

Oh and of course, if you have phone extensions, make sure you haven't reversed the two lines used for audio as this can mess up caller id.

Posts: 76 · Vonage Forum Senior Joined: Oct 17, 2005 Posts: 76

Well, surprise surprise - I got home last night to find my modem had given up doing caller id again! For all my fiddling, I seem to be able to get it to work only to find it broken again some hours later. Going to try some other modems tonight but I'm suspicious because my current modem did caller id 100% accurately when connected to my Telewest phone line.

Posts: 71 · Full Forum Member Joined: Jul 19, 2005 Posts: 71

bassplayer wrote:

Well, surprise surprise - I got home last night to find my modem had given up doing caller id again! For all my fiddling, I seem to be able to get it to work only to find it broken again some hours later. Going to try some other modems tonight but I'm suspicious because my current modem did caller id 100%
to my Telewest phone line.

bassplayer,

Are you in the UK?

What is the modem you refer to with caller ID?

Posts: 76 · Vonage Forum Senior Joined: Oct 17, 2005 Posts: 76

Yes, I'm in the UK and the modem is this one:

Broadcom BCM94212/I V.92 K56 PCI Softmodem

Do a search on Ebay for 'broadcom modem'...

Posts: 76 · Vonage Forum Senior Joined: Oct 17, 2005 Posts: 76

Ok, so I think I'm getting somewhere now. Just found this:

From: http://www.caller-id-answers.info

14. Why US modems do not work in the UK

Modems designed for the US market wait for the ringing signal before they start to look for any Caller ID. This means that when these are connected to BT lines, they do not “wake-up” for the line reversal. By the time the ringing is presented by BT the Caller ID signal is gone and it is too late for the modem to detect it. The modem then thinks that the Caller ID signal has in fact not been sent.

If these US modems are used on Telewest or NTL lines, then they may work as these preset ringing before delivering the Caller ID signal. However, operation may be temperamental due to timing differences between the US and the UK specifications.

This explains why my modem used to work fine on Telewest but no longer does the business on the Vonage line!

Posts: 76 · Vonage Forum Senior Joined: Oct 17, 2005 Posts: 76

Fixed it!

Rang Vonage tech support last night and have to say they have been brilliant. They answer the phone quickly and the guy was very patient with me... Basically he went through the various settings he was able to change relating to caller id. The main thing they change if you have caller id problems in the UK appears to be something to do with line impedence. Not sure I follow this fully but perhaps its related to getting caller id devices to detect the polarity reversal before the first ring. My modem seemed to struggle with doing that certainly. Next we went through the list of caller id standards which he could switch me to. The default appears to be called:

ETSI FSK with PR (UK)

This is the BT caller id standard. PR stands for 'Polarity Reversal'. The idea is that before the phone rings their is a polarity reversal on the line which instructs caller id devices to listen for the caller id data.

Next thing we tried was called ETSI FSK. As with the BT standard, this worked on my phones but not on my modem. We then tried a standard based on DTMF instead of FSK. I think this is a Scandanavian standard and neither the modem nor any of the phones could understand it. Finally, I read this text from a website out to the tech support guy:

"The Cable companies, like Telewest, NTL etc have a system of Caller ID delivery that is similar to that used in the US. I.e. an initial ring burst followed by FSK data."

My modem used to work fine on Telewest. He then said he could put me on the US style caller id and BINGO! Everything works. Phones and modems. My experience in all this is that phones are typically much less sensitive to the exact caller id standard. They seem to listen for the caller id data in a number of places. My phones work on the BT and Telewest lines so they must listen for caller id both after an initial polarity reversal AND after the first ring, perhaps with the later as a fallback position. Modems (and perhaps the duophone?) are much less intelligent. They need to know exactly when to listen for caller id. Although sold as a UK caller id modem, mine seems much happier with the US standard. i.e. It hears a ring, then listens for caller id. Anyway, I just thought I'd share my experiences...

Posts: 71 · Full Forum Member Joined: Jul 19, 2005 Posts: 71

bassplayer,

I was going to suggest you can change the CLI format in the ATA (Vonage can remotely) but you beat me too it!

I was aware telewest and NTL use a different format in the UK to that of BT as I have heard of CLI compatibility issues between BT phones on NTL lines etc in the past, strange why they choose to that... I suspect it was marketing idea so they can sell you their own phones!

Not sure this is related to my problem with CLI on my Dualphone but I will check with the manufactuer exactly what CLI format they support for the UK.

Regards,

Paul