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CyanLeader
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Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:42 pm    Post subject: UNhappy Subscriber, but willing to learn Reply with quote Back to top

I've been a Vonage subscriber for about 8 months now. I've had consistently bad service. I tried both phone and email support, but was sadly disappointed at the inability to help resolve. So here's the scoop - from the sticky at the top of the forum.

Location: Chicago IL
ISP: Comcast cable
Speed: 4041/357 kbps
Modem: Motorola SB 5100
Software Version: SB5100-2.3.1.3-SCM00-NOSH
Hardware Version: 3
MIB Version: II
GUI Version: 1.0
VxWorks Version: 5.4

Down SNR 38dB
Power -4 dB
Up Power 46dBmV

Router Linksys RTP31P2 Firmware Version 1.28.00, Feb 21,2005

Cable Modem – Router – 2 PC’s, 1 Printer, and wall jack

Issues: Dropped calls, wife ready to maim me, incomplete calls, wife ready to kill me, calls going straight to voice mail although no one is on the phone, wife ready to Lorena Bobett me.

MOS Analysis from You TO Boston

Media Quality MOS 4.4 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)



Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 93.0%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.04 7.0%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 146 ms
Packet Discards 0.3%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 20 ms
Random Loss

Jitter Min: 0 ms
Avg: 5 ms
Max: 21 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 94 ms
Call Setup Time 94 ms
Media Delay 219 ms
MOS Analysis FROM Boston To You

Media Quality MOS 4.0 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)



Degradation Sources
Codec 0.57 60.3%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.00 0.0%
Packet Loss 0.38 39.7%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 146 ms
Packet Discards 0.0%
Packet Loss 1.3%
Loss Periods Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 20 ms
Random Loss

Jitter Min: 4 ms
Avg: 6 ms
Max: 20 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Pickup Delay 110 ms
Call Setup Time 120 ms
Media Delay 141 ms

Another sticky at the top of the page explaining the acceptable ranges for some of these measurements might be cool. I also tried to get help from Vonage regarding QoS settings, but none of my contacts could help me (thank God I'm not relying on there CS staff for any type of mission critical function). How do I tweak these to help my situation?

Thanks in advance for any help.

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chupper
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:41 am    Post subject: My Recommendation Reply with quote Back to top

My Recommendation - here it is.

I currently have this at one site, and it works flawlessly. I'm also in the Chicago area...

Comcast 8/768 service to your same cable modem (SB51xx)

Purchase a WRT54GS linksys router and plug it into your motorola cable modem. Also visit http://www.sveasoft.com/ and use Talisman firmware on the WRT54GS.

Upgrade your Voip adapter to an RTP300. Plug the RTP300 into the WRT54GS. Plug your network/computer(s) into the WRT54GS.

Use IP reservation on your RTP300 and put QOS high on it and low on your PC/Network.

My bet is you won't have any problems after this.
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CyanLeader
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Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Is there anything wrong with my current hardware?
What were the keys in the posting, that denoted faulty hardware?
Do I have to upgrade my cable service?

Vonage supplied the Linksys. If the hardware can't handle the task, why did they supply it?

Thanks for your help.

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chupper
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

CyanLeader wrote:
Is there anything wrong with my current hardware?
What were the keys in the posting, that denoted faulty hardware?
Do I have to upgrade my cable service?

Vonage supplied the Linksys. If the hardware can't handle the task, why did they supply it?

Thanks for your help.


Cyan,
I don't know that there is anything wrong with your current hardware. I didn't even notice you saying there was something wrong with your hardware.

Do you have to upgrade your cable service? I don't know. I would recommend it, yes. At the same time of upgrading tell Comcast that SBC is offering 19.95 and Comcast will bring down the price for six months. You'll end up getting faster speeds for a lower price.

Why did Vonage supply the RTP31P2? As a whole, they are a decent product. I requested though, that Vonage swap out my RTP31P2 because I heard better things about the RTP300 from a Voice perspective, and so far my experiences have been proven correct. The RTP300 is louder, clearer, and more reliable (as long as its not the primary router) than my old RTP31P2.

I don't like using the Voip adapters as routers. I feel they are designed to be adapters. I'll buy a router thats designed to be a router and give the adapter high priority, i.e. qos.

What's the meaning of all of this?

Here's the deal. I work with Voip PBXs (Mitel, Cisco, Avaya) and these Linksys/Cisco ATAs (adapters) all day every day of my life. There is one thing I've found to been proven time and time again. If you find a reliable set of equipment, stick to it. Through trial and error, like many times in the IP world, eventually you get a good setup of equipment. You can't always explain it. Why does a Mitel IP phone work better when connected through a WRT54GS then directly into a Cisco T-1 router? I don't know. Trust me that when you find something good, you stick with it. I've spent hours upon hours on the phone with AT&T top tier technicians and Cisco CCIEs and no matter how long we try to figure it out certain setups just work better and we can't figure out why.

It's also not just about the hardware working together, it's the software (which might be part of the reason for all of this). On my WRT54GSs I use Sveasoft Talisman firmware because it gives me more control and has proven itself more reliable for Voip. Firmware is a tricky thing and probably a big reason for a lot of the problems out there. Manufacturers are quick to rush hardware to the market without giving their techs enough time to build decent firmware. The RTP300 is a perfect example of this. Though the firmware on the voice side seems like its the best yet on consumer grade ATAs, the firmware for the router side leaves a lot to be wished for. Thats one reason I purchase routers for routers and ATAs for ATAs.

So you know, you can get Vonage CS to swap out your RTP300 for free, they charge you $100 then credit you back as soon as they get the old one back.

The answer to your question? Yes and no. Sorry I couldn't be any more precise Smile.
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scerruti
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Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: Feb 05, 2005
Posts: 1424
Location: Carlsbad, CA (finally)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Your TestYourVoip scores are good. Do you have problems at any specific time of day? Did you run this test at a time when you would normally have problems?

I would suggest running Ping Plotter using UDP to a Vonage IP address (64.210.19.18 or 216.115.23.23).

Calls going straight to voicemail indicates to me that your connection is dropping out enough that your adapter loses its registration with Vonage servers. By running Ping Plotter over a period of time you can identify if there are drop out and where they are occurring. In my opinion this would also explain your other symptoms.

Do you have good call quality when your calls don't drop?

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Saber
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The first thing I would try to do is upgrade the firmware on your RTP31P2. The information below was copied from an earlier post from trueimage.

trueimage wrote:
I just found this post and tried resetting, and my RT31P2 didn't get an update.

I called Vonage tech support and they said my device was "too old" to push the firmware through. So he gave me a link.

http://httpconfig.vonage.net/RT31P2_v1.30.01_000_VM_3.1.06_LI_combin_code.bin

(someone should try getting that dir listing to get beta stuff or other versions etc)

Also, someone should dl and host the file incase this link dies (I have the file saved if it does die, let me know)

Also, during the upgrade, it asks for a username and password, here's what he gave me (the first one worked for me):

user / 7756112
user / 8995533
user / 50274537

these are for the upgrade part, and not for the router itself, since I logged in afterwards with the standard admin/admin

My upgrade went fine, now I'm running firmware 1.30.01 and voice software 3.1.6 LI.

Also, he gave me some instructions:
1. unplug the WAN connection from the Vonage router.
2. restart the router (unplug 1 min)
3. upgrade firmware
4. plug in WAN and restart router

Hope this helps others.


Try this and see how that helps. As for QoS, as long as voice Qos is enable and your bandwidth setting is correct, that is all your should have to tweak.
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Saber
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Joined: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Any feedback yet?
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CyanLeader
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Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Little feedback, but will try to post signals Tuesday night (Busy weekend, and Monday is already booked).

Bought the wireless router and a PAP2 device. After setting up router, I called VonageHelp, and was told by Fred, who used indecipherable English, that I would have to call Jersey (sidebar: What's the point of outsourcing if the customer has to make another call?) Couldn't get my Voip to work. Fred kept trying to use the MAC ID of the router. Jersey took the MAC ID of the PAP2, and I was up and running.

Will post signals Tuesday. I hope this helps. I'm really fed up with Vonage lack of quality, accompanied by lack of support.

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CyanLeader
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Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Still need to investigate upgrading firmware on router, but here are the specs.

Firmware Version: v3.37.7, Apr. 25, 2005
Current Time: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:46:49
MAC Address: 00:13:10:A0:6E:F7
Router Name: WRT54GS
Host Name:
Domain Name: hsd1.il.comcast.net.


Here is current status of router:

Frequency 711000000 Hz Locked
Signal to Noise Ratio 37 dB
Power Level -3 dB The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new reading

Upstream Value
Channel ID 3
Frequency 20800000 Hz Ranged
Power Level 45 dBmV

Here is current test from testyourvoip.com boston

MOS Analysis from You TO Boston

Media Quality MOS 4.3 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)

Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 86.1%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.09 13.9%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 160 ms
Packet Discards 0.4%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 20 ms
Random Loss

Jitter Min: 0 ms
Avg: 7 ms
Max: 40 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 78 ms
Call Setup Time 93 ms
Media Delay 203 ms

MOS Analysis from You TO Boston

Media Quality MOS 3.3 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)



Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 34.3%
Latency 0.53 31.7%
Packet Discards 0.57 33.9%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 593 ms
Packet Discards 2.1%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 20 ms
Avg: 60 ms
Max: 140 ms
Burst Loss

Jitter Min: 0 ms
Avg: 16 ms
Max: 335 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 78 ms
Call Setup Time 94 ms
Media Delay 203 ms

MOS Analysis FROM Boston To You

Media Quality MOS 3.6 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)



Degradation Sources
Codec 0.57 40.2%
Latency 0.50 34.8%
Packet Discards 0.36 24.9%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 593 ms
Packet Discards 1.7%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 40 ms
Avg: 60 ms
Max: 80 ms
Burst Loss

Jitter Min: 4 ms
Avg: 7 ms
Max: 168 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Pickup Delay 96 ms
Call Setup Time 105 ms
Media Delay 129 ms

Here are some recent broadband reports results too. http://www.broadbandreports.com/quality/nil/1886999

On top of the aforementioned issues, we are now also experiencing the I can hear them, but they can't hear me BS. When solid connections are made, I get a little feedback, and echo on the line.

Are there mods here that can escalate this to the attention of folk at Vonage, or is this simply a "Users helping Users" scenario? My kinda folk, but it seems that high tech diagnosis would go a long way in these cases. Is there anyone out there that can actually diagnose based on these stats? I can post these stats all day long, but there is no guide on how to read/remedy them.

Frustration is well established. Ughh!

Thanks again for everybodies help.

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