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captdave
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Joined: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:25 pm    Post subject: RFI - Identified! Reply with quote Back to top

I've ientified the cause of my radio interference! In unplugging my home's phone network from Qwest's network (by unplugging the test jack...see photo in link), I've created an antenna. I know this is the cause because if I plug it back in and pick up the phone, there's no interference!

http://home.comcast.net/~captdave311/100_0794.jpg

So, what can I do to cap this wire, or at least fix the issue at this point in the home's network?
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scerruti
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

There is probably an earth ground on the telco side of the NID.

I would not recommend this, but you could open that side of the interface, disconnect the telco connection and leave your side connected to the grounding block. I mention this because I might actually do this as a test to see if having an earth ground in the loop will help things.

This ground is intended to prevent surges from entering the house from the street but it is probably also knocking out the interference.

One easy solution is to use a telephone line surge suppressor. Any decent one will have an external ground that should be connected to earth ground. One example is the APC PTEL2 (about $20). This would be the first thing I would try.

After that I might start looking at the RFI filters that k-comfilters.com sells.

I reality the first thing you should do is try to determine if the interference is being introduced from one particular part of your home wiring and see if there isn't an actual wiring problem. According to some of the reading I have been doing, poor wiring is one of the main causes of RFI.

For example, from your picture it appears that you have two different sets of wires coming into your side of the NID (one green/red, the other blue/white). Disconnect each one and see if the interference goes away. It also appears you have a third cable entering into the other side of the box. What is that doing? And the gray cable that appears to be entering the telco side of the box from the bottom right?

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captdave
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the feedback! I'll try disconnecting the red/green from the terminals and if that doesn't solve the problem, I try the blue/white.

I'm wondering if the payoff for troubleshooting the wiring (which I know little about) is above just purchasing a few RF filters that would attach to the jacks where I have phones.

What say ye?
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scerruti
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Bad wiring can continue to cause problems and can eventually lead to your house burning down.

Although the risk of this is small, if the problems are easy to locate and correct then that should be the first step.

Adding grounding/surge suppression is probably the first thing I would do. My UPS has built in phone line surge suppression. My big problem with this is that I am unsure exactly which direction I should have it installed. My opinion is that the surge suppression should be protecting the adapter from the wall.

I don't know exactly how well the RFI filters work, never having used them. So I don't know if they are going to eliminate the problem or just alleviate it.

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linnym
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I am a radio operator and know a thing or two about RFI.
What I found is that I have two ground rods. One for the electric and one for the phone. Hence I have a ground loop and a difference in potential. 36 volts AC at the time of testing.
I now have both ground rods connected together which has removed all of the RFI/noise/voltage on my lines, but then I went one further, I have removed all of the lines I am using for the phone from the phone companies connection block and have connected them together using 3M's sealed snap connectors.
For grounding I am using the connections on my UPS.
Mind you I didn't have any problems with my phone prior to Vonage.
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E-Gads
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Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Radio Shack!!!

Telephone RFI Filter
Sku: 43-150

$20
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VonageTPA
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 1715
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

and RFI filter's not going to do much for a ground loop though. 36vAC? ouch! No wonder you were having problems with it.

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dabones
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

aboput a month back, my line 1 on my RT31P2 died, so i had the line switched to port 2.. anyways, i kinda figure it fried durrig a lightning storm, I was connected to entire house at that time..

last weekend I decided I wanted to check the grounds on the house, well my phoen line wasn't groun=ded at all, the cable line was grounde to water pipe and the electrical ground was it's own.. so I connected all the grounds together, phone, cable and house electrical.. and my static that I used to have is completrely gone, the calls are soo clear now.. the static was only ever there before when the house was wired w/o a ground..

so yeah a ground makes a big difference in your call quality and liek everyone says they shoudl all be connected..

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VonageTPA
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

dabones wrote:
aboput a month back, my line 1 on my RT31P2 died, so i had the line switched to port 2.. anyways, i kinda figure it fried durrig a lightning storm, I was connected to entire house at that time..

last weekend I decided I wanted to check the grounds on the house, well my phoen line wasn't grounded at all, the cable line was grounded to water pipe and the electrical ground was it's own.. so I connected all the grounds together, phone, cable and house electrical.. and my static that I used to have is completrely gone, the calls are soo clear now.. the static was only ever there before when the house was wired w/o a ground..

so yeah a ground makes a big difference in your call quality and liek everyone says they shoudl all be connected..


I promise I wasn't blowing smoke when I suggested this back in this thread: http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic6971-0-asc-0.html where I posted quite a bit of info on grounding. I haven't lived in Florida for all my life & not suffered a catastrophic failure of equipment due to lightning/power surges by chance.

Grounding is the first line of defense when it comes to interference and surges. Only after that's established can you go onto shielding and surge protectors. I have lost a couple of surge protectors, but I also sustained direct lightning strikes to those buildings/facilities. It's always humbling to pick up the melted metal remnants of your antenna some 50' away from the tower. The point gets driven home when you enter the facility and find all of your surge protectors charred & disfigured, BUT, all of the equipment still worked once it was reconnected to power.

I wouldn't be surprised if this solves your lightning problems once & for all as well.

_________________
ISP: Varies depending where I'm at.
Vonage: Linksys RTP300
Router: IPCop 1.4.10
Phones: various
Total calls since Jul 24, 2005: 4,794 calls
Total Minutes since Jul 24, 2005: 25,552 minutes
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Clutch82
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Joined: Aug 25, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: RFI - Identified! Reply with quote Back to top

Just like a coax cable that is not grounded, it can introduce line noise and interference if not grounded. Most anything that can create/transmit/recieve Electromagnetic Interference should be grounded. Coax particularly is susceptible if unused connectors are not terminated by a little cover that looks like a metal nipple and goes unused coax port. I put my cable line and telephone lines on a good surge suppressor so that the noise is sent to ground. Got my surge suppressor (APC-PH8VT3) at [ADMIN EDIT - PLEASE READ THE FORUM RULES REGARDING LINKING]. They have neat info on a lot of stuff about Voip, like hardware and installation.

------------------------------------------------------


captdave wrote:
I've ientified the cause of my radio interference! In unplugging my home's phone network from Qwest's network (by unplugging the test jack...see photo in link), I've created an antenna. I know this is the cause because if I plug it back in and pick up the phone, there's no interference!

http://home.comcast.net/~captdave311/100_0794.jpg

So, what can I do to cap this wire, or at least fix the issue at this point in the home's network?
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