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Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.  Vonage® VoIP Forum - Vonage News, Reviews And Discussion » Vonage Forum Archive
Poll

Is VONAGE legally entiteled to lock YOUR property ?
YES
51%
 51%  [ 16 ]
NO
48%
 48%  [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 31

Author Message
drnobby
New Forum Member
New Forum Member


Joined: Jul 19, 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Miami, FL

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject: PAP2 UNLOCK CLASS ACTION Reply with quote Back to top

Hi PAP2 Trapped friends -

This is about the missing explicit advice on the sales box
of PAP2 Vonage version, that it cannot be used with
any other Voip Provider - BUT Vonage.

Compared to all Cell Phones which are sold below MSR,
they are all sold only with a new min. x year contract.
If you don't close the contract within a certain time,
your CreditCard is charged for the difference to the MSR.

Now reading, rather studying the topic of unlocking
these PAP2 xxVON Devices, I think it's some
serious hardware inside the box and to most likely not
Jtag, but to Flash it would take some serious
money ... now I haven't bought the device illegaly Wink
and unless it is actually Vonage property in any
kind of that sense - one should be legally able
to BRUTE FORCE Vonage to unlock on request
or post the TOP SECRET PWD on some TOP SECRET
SITE (like this one), so really bothersome PAP2 Owners
could switch whenever they like and won't keep
bothering.

Now there are maybe 2 ways to get there ...

a nasty one :
1. everybody reading this posts starts inmediatelly
to call Vonage Support and requests detailed
information on unlocking PAP2 and why not ...
sure 60times a day and always asking for the
supervisor. Now that will get to the point they
just release the pwd ... because it's just a passoword
you need to UNLOCK the device !

and a even more nasty one :
2. CLASS ACTION or CLASS CLAIM ...
meaning all of PAP2 users who see their rights violated,
as of ther personal perspective, inscribe in THIS POST and some sleek group of lawyers will eventually pickup the topic, as they'll find
some other even more interesting aspects in the subject
which could mean a lot of extra $$$ to the law firm -
that's why they start sewing ... and the matter goes
public. - now you know how the rest works ...

Did you know that an unsatisfied customer talks 8 x more
BAD about your bad service, than a satisfied customer about
your good service ?

Now there's a 3rd option, Vonage will now by now Wink
because it's written right here in between the lines.

talk less BS so you can save even more $$$

best regards

DrNobby

so you are p Twisted Evil ... because bought a box which's
NOT a DOORSTOP, but you use it as one ... just drop a new
post with your email and we'll see Wink

BTW mine to start with DrNobby@hotmail.com
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Trowski
Vonage Forum MVM
Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 1389
Location: Putnam, CT

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well, if you lawyer is willing to take this case because thats "why they start sewing" then you have MUCH bigger issues my friend..
Maybe a really sleek lawyer with start "needlepointing or knitting for you also".

The cellphone argument doesn't work becasue there are plenty of rebates, free offers, etc, so you have to almost TRY to pay fullprice..If free is not below MSRP then I don't know what else is.

Also, your real issue is with Linksys, not Vonage. This is a Linksys product not a Vonage product.


From the other thread...

1. If you have enough time to sit there and call Vonage support 60 times a day, I wish I was you...things like everyday life, children, jobs, wives/husbands, sleep, sex, etc have a tendency to get in the way of that. But go right ahead and keep your results posted here. But some could also consider that harassment, so you may find yourself on the wrong side of the coin..Keep us posted on that also

2. Class action suit? Nice try, but you really won't get far. The product does exactly what it is meant to do. Work with Vonage Voip services. That is what it is there to do, not Vonage/ATT?P8 or whatever. So here is your dilema. you bought a box to work with the Vonage network, does everything it is advertised to do, etc. You really won't get far, but again if you have enough time to call 60 times a day you have enough time to try to get this going.


Last edited by Trowski on Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:09 pm; edited 3 times in total
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paul248
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Nov 25, 2004
Posts: 646
Location: Mountain View, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Does it suck? Yes.
Is it illegal? Probably not, but this could be fun to watch.
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drnobby
New Forum Member
New Forum Member


Joined: Jul 19, 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Miami, FL

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Trowski wrote:
Well, if you lawyer is willing to take this case because thats "why they start sewing" then you have MUCH bigger issues my friend..
Maybe a really sleek lawyer with start "needlepointing or knitting for you also".

Well ... I really haven't seen a lawyer working for free or for the greater good - I understand your thought ... but from my point of view the basc legal consideration does not have to be recited in this context. So if there's no money ... there's show ... and show
makes money.


Trowski wrote:

The cellphone argument doesn't work becasue there are plenty of rebates, free offers, etc, so you have to almost TRY to pay fullprice..If free is not below MSRP then I don't know what else is.

It really doesn't ? So check the sales policies they have...
and the boxes ... and mine PAP2 hasn't been FREE ... nor these of too many other fellow PAP2 unlock requesters ... were they FREE ?
If so - we wouldn't be here ... !!! and PAP2 would be in the BIN.

Trowski wrote:

Also, your real issue is with Linksys, not Vonage. This is a Linksys product not a Vonage product.


Now that's getting really interesting here ...
so who does actually have the Algorithm to unlock the PAP2 ?

Now there are some software lockable / protectable parts in the flash memory of PAP2 ... which prevent a factory default reset
to actuallo DO a factory default reset and to DELETE the LOCKING PASSWORD - does that ring a BELLLL .

Now Vonage / Linksys build and distribute a Voip Router -
why shouldn't that work with any other Voip Provider ...

You know what need's to be written on the Sales Box ?

"LOCKED TO VONAGE VoIP SERVICE -

DOES NOT WORK WITH OTHER VoIP PROVIDERS"




Trowski wrote:

From the other thread...

1. If you have enough time to sit there and call Vonage support 60 times a day, I wish I was you...things like everyday life, children, jobs, wives/husbands, sleep, sex, etc have a tendency to get in the way of that. But go right ahead and keep your results posted here. But some could also consider that harassment, so you may find yourself on the wrong side of the coin..Keep us posted on that also

Yeah, you are probably right, that's not fair for the Vonage employees neither ... and who would ask the same question over and over again ??? Eek - specially knowing the answer ... Wink



... thanks for answering so quickly and not deleting this thread.

best regards

DrNobby
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VonageTPA
Vonage Forum MVM
Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 1715
Location: Florida (usually)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If you want to pay full price for a PAP2, be my guest... I'm sure it won't be the $30, $60, or whatever it is at Circuit City/Best Buy/etc. Just like the cell phone providers, I'm pretty sure Vonage/Linksys aren't charging full price on these things and are trying to recoop some of their costs. Otherwise, what's to stop someone from buying up a ton of the PAP2s and using them with Asterisk rather than paying 3x as much for the Sipura equivalents?

I don't exactly care for it, but at the same time, I don't want to pay full price for the phone adapter.
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drnobby
New Forum Member
New Forum Member


Joined: Jul 19, 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Miami, FL

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:55 am    Post subject: Full Price of PAP2 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi ConageTPA -
you see, no matter who get's in the discussion,
it's always conclusive, that there's an information
deficit when buying the PAP2 adapter in a retail store...
as you couldn't tell howmuch the PAP2 Adapter retail
would be / supposing you would suspect that it's
NOT the price you paid and just a cheap adapter
with a huge promo for Vonage.

BTW I don't see the advantage of PAP2 over and
GRANDSREAM, which go for less than SIPURA ...

again ... the BOX should say :

"LOCKED TO Vonage Voip SERVICE -

DOES NOT WORK WITH OTHER Voip PROVIDERS"

thanks

DrNobby
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Trowski
Vonage Forum MVM
Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 1389
Location: Putnam, CT

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

There is not an information deficit at a retail store. There is tons of information. It's called the salespeople. My guess is people think they know what they are buying without doing a simple internet search, walk in, don't ask a single question, and purchase it. They get home, realize they don't have the product they want, and then leash damnation against Vonage because they felt they were wronged... Evil or Very Mad

One simple search on linksys.com, reading the provided install guides etc next to the product, will show it is Vonage related, or CV related etc...
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rlstjohn
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Jan 27, 2005
Posts: 218
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Although I see reasons to have the PAP2 unlocked, I see it as causing more problems rather than solving them. There are way too many morons out there who could mess things up with an unlocked PAP2. Vonage has enough customer service calls and I'm assuming locking the device prevents thousands of additional calls.
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Trowski
Vonage Forum MVM
Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 1389
Location: Putnam, CT

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well, it looks like the results are in!
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drnobby
New Forum Member
New Forum Member


Joined: Jul 19, 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Miami, FL

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:51 pm    Post subject: RESULTS Reply with quote Back to top

Hi Trowski,

well - let's make some promotion first ...
Arrow to get some more interested people to review Eek


best regards

DrNobby

_________________
Dr.Nobby

1 x 9.6k DialUp
1 x 386DX, 2, 20, 800x600 with Neon (stickers) and Rally stripes
1 x SmokeSignal Generator
1 x PAP2 Locked Wink
1 x Sixpack Buex But + CurryWurst

That's one happy son of a gun -
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