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VonageTPA
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 1715
Location: Florida (usually)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

nesincg wrote:
I hate it that I'm just posting to myself, but I'm just trying to help someone out later.

Last night, another lightning storm, 4th router now dead. No direct hits, maybe one down a block. Same blinking lights. phone1 then both, then off.

I didn't even have it plugged into my phone system, just a phone and fax machine. So it must not be the phone system. The shock must be coming through the power that is protected by a surge protector, or the cable modem and then the ethernet cable. Either way I don't care.


Call up the surge protector manufacturer & complain. Obviously their product's not working.
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Mikerjf
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Mine will stay disconnected after any type of power hit (not sure if its ever done it due to a lightning flash, most of the power hits are during a thunderstorm). When the power comes back the phones are dead and stay dead until I manually power the router down and then power it up again. I was told by Vonage that if the router and the cable modem come back at the same time the router won't sync and it has to be manually cycled. Pretty lame if you ask me, I left for a week and while I was gone I had a power hit, phones were dead as doornail when I got back. You'd think this thing would be designed to sync itself. Is this an issue just with the Linksys routers or are they all like this? I'm still trying to find out why mine won't ring a standard corded wall phone.

Mike
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icom1
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Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject: UPS Reply with quote Back to top

A UPS would solve a lot of your problems, I have my router plugged into a UPS battery port, and have had no problems though storms.
Probably could pick a good one up for $100 or so.
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tonamo
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:37 pm    Post subject: This is painfull to endure watching! Reply with quote Back to top

nesincg wrote:
Short of sacrificial chickens, my final solution is to try a PAP2 devise. I have it hooked up behind a wireless router. We'll see how long it makes it.


I also live in North Florida (Jacksonville), and I have read most of the posts here and like you are investigating a solution to this problem. I’m on my 3rd router/ATA (tech support sending me a RTP300 this time). My previous 2 were RT31P2. Both of them had the same symptoms as were discussed here... after a nearby lightning strike, the phone ports are gone, but the router section of the device is working fine. In my case, switching to the second port was futile in attempting to recover from both events that hosed the boxes. Ironically i think this may have provided a clue as to where the problem lays with these systems. These boxes generate some medium level voltages (used to power the phones that are connected to them) as do the PSTN lines which carries about -40 volts from batteries. I had to send the boxes back to Vonage, but I would be willing to bet that the power supplies that generate the line voltage have been taken out, and that is why they fail on the second phone port. The box can not pass a self check on the second phone ports because no -40v present, and thus will never establish an SIP with the Vonage servers.

Now if you did as was recommended to me (I cant remember from whom now), but I was instructed that if I wanted to connect the box to my house phone wiring, that I should disconnect from the PSTN lines coming into my house which I did by opening the demarcation junction box (as was shown above by VonageTPA), and just pulling the internal RJ11 plugs out. This did 2 things to make my box susceptible. 1) I removed the lines from the MOV surge protection devices in the box. Remember these are to protect Ma-Bell not me. 2) I created a high impedance termination with respect to earth ground on the lines. Now they are only terminated by the RT31P2 and I assume it terminates at 600 ohms common mode, but am not sure, but likewise with respect to earth ground, the impedance is probably very high. Also because I have all the phone wiring in the house connected in parallel to this wire and running for miles all over the place, I have created a large antenna which can generate very high voltages with respect to earth ground by way of EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse), (and if you saw the Matrix, you know what I am talking about. These, BTW are for-real and not just Hollywood hokum) if it happens to be close proximity to a gigantic rapid current discharge which happens in a lightning strike. Actually the voltages with respect to earth ground generated in a wiring network (antenna) from an EMP is dependant on many factors which dictate the amount of energy coupled into the network such as how close the strike was to the wire, the incident angle at which the EM field crosses the wire, and the impedance of the termination with respect to earth ground. The lower this impedance, the lower the voltage that can be generated from a given energy input, provided the termination network (in this case the RT31P2) is able to absorb and dissipate that energy. I suspect that in both cases where my RT31P2 boxes blew, the high voltage power supply failed because the EMP voltages exceeded the limits of the electronics (ie termination network) in the box. So heavy external shunting is needed on the phone lines. All I am saying here, is that lightning voltages may get into things by way of the phone wires even if they are disconnected from the outside world (which may have created the susceptibility by increasing the impedance with respect to earth ground) by way of induction, which is in addition to conduction through the house 120 VAC, and conduction from phone lines still connected to the street.

I can not be absolutely sure this is what is going on due to the difficulty testing this hypothesis (not to mention the cost and aggravation), so it remains just a theory, however I do have some suggestion which I intend to implement as soon as my latest ATA gets here:

1) Check to be sure that there are adequate surge protection devices attached to your phone lines that shunt the voltage to earth ground. If you are relying on the ones that are installed in your incoming demark box, make sure that they connect to the house side of the lines, if you have disconnected the lines from the street.
2) Make sure you are using the proper type of surge suppressors. For this I refer you to an article that I found useful. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1155239,00.asp


Hopefully I will be able to update this forum with good news of not failing my latest ATA in month or so.

Good Luck
Rolling Eyes
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moshkosh
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:24 am    Post subject: whom are the makers of vonage boxes? who are the manufacture Reply with quote Back to top

whom are the makers of Vonage boxes? who are the manufactures?
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tonamo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The RT31P2 and RTP300 units are Linksys, although I vaguely remember reading that they are ultimately Cisco designs.
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VonageTPA
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Posts: 1715
Location: Florida (usually)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Let's see.. There's the PAP2/RT31P2, which are Linksys-branded, with Sipura-based technology on the inside. Then there's the Motorola VT2442, & Linksys RTP300 and Linksys WRTP54G which use Texas Instruments chipsets.

_________________
ISP: Varies depending where I'm at.
Vonage: Linksys RTP300
Router: IPCop 1.4.10
Phones: various
Total calls since Jul 24, 2005: 4,794 calls
Total Minutes since Jul 24, 2005: 25,552 minutes
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