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justpaul
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Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:02 pm    Post subject: My setup: Cable modem -> VT1000 with QoS -> Linksys BE Reply with quote Back to top

I thought I would share my setup with others in case they ran into the same problem I did. I have used my hardware in the example, but different hardware should behave similarly.

Problem: I use a lot of file sharing programs that use a large range of dynamic ports (i.e., torrent, irc, web, mail, ssh servers, etc). Because of apps like torrent using all available bandwidth, I needed to use the QoS features of the VT1000, but the NAT forwarding feature of the VT1000 was too incomplete for me to utilize it.

Solution: Setup the VT1000 as a pass-through!

My hardware setup: Comcast Cable Modem (3mb/s actual download, 384k up) plugged to WAN port of VT1000, the PC port of the VT1000 plugged into the WAN port of the BEFW11S4, workstations and internet appliances (wired and wireless) on the private/NAT side of the befw11s4.

Set the befw11s4 to 'obtain ip address automatically'.
Set the vt1000 to dhcp as well (Since my isp handles all authentication internally between themselves and the modem, I don't need pppoe.)
Go to the vt1000 web interface advanced tab and disable nat.
reboot everything

The vt1000 now passes all packets that are not on the Voip ports.
The status page of the befw11s4 should show your isp's assigned public ip address as its wan ip.

Result: All mapping, forwarding, and triggers are handled by the befw11s4. Bandwidth throttling and Voip packets are handled by the vt1000.

Here are a few things I believe to be true, but haven't tested yet:
1. If your authentication is handled via pppoe, you should be able to enable pppoe on the vt1000 and leave the befw11s4 as dhcp.
2. The web/http port (80) should be passed-through if the request originates from an external address (instead of getting the blank page created by vt1000)
2a. ditto for telnet
3. Ipsec packets should be passed through unaffected (some older NATs change the header of ipsec packets rendering them useless).


Last edited by justpaul on Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Maniac8888
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Joined: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Keep us posted on the reliability (if you have any reboots) of the VT1005 using your configuration.
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Laureltn
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I will be watching this too since it's almost the same hardware I have. I admit I understand, I think, about 50% of what it all means, though. Lol

I have not had much trouble with it just in front, however, with the 1023 stealth. that's the only change I made. Had the one reboot 1/1/04 where I lost phones but not the network and the one bad day this past Monday that I really think was Comcast-driven.

If it stays even this stable, it's workable. Now, I do still hear an occasional tone on my end when I'm talking to people and have had at least once where somebody said they heard a beep -- but I didn't inquire and it might have been their call waiting. (And I suppose we all could be dialing with our chins -- but maybe whatever what going on with the Cisco is still going on here at least to some extent, which would mean the beeps were never the ATA in the first place.)

Comcast is working on that speed upgrade here, I think, and I'm not going to worry too much until we get the higher through-puts.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I've been doing some external port scans to see if having the vt1000 in front causes any problems (with the device or port security). The port scans show exactly the same as results as before adding the vt1000: all ports are stealthed when my net apps are closed (irc triggers the ident port, etc) and no glitches/lockups in the Voip device. I have not tested the flakey internet connection glitch frankly because I don't want to. Smile

The vt1000 specs are not public (part of the security by obscurity thing) but if I were to guess, I would say when nat is disabled, the vt1000 handles all packets on the network level of the OSI. This allows it to pass packets without processing them (so it is not susceptable to DoS attacks, etc) allowing the next device on the chain to handle the data. When nat is enabled, the vt1000 operates at the session layer of the OSI having to read and process all packets before forwarding them. I think that is where the vt1000 is having problems.

I haven't heard any beeps or had any disconnects/downtimes with the Vonage system, but I am pretty new to the Vonage network. I'll continue to post on this thread my experiences.
justpaul
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Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

that last post was by me.
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Laureltn
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Justpaul:

Hmm, that's very interesting. I think I could figure out what you've done, although I've not played with NAT settings before I don't think. Only difference is right now we've got a Netgear between the V1000 and the Linksys. We were one port short when we put the V1000 behind the router, so I had to get a switch or a router. I got the Netgear because I didn't have to foward stuff like with the linksys and I liked having it all back to DHCP instead of static.

Now I could ditch the netgear, actually, since the v1000 is in front and not occupying a port. we've only got four computers hardwired at the moment. if I do decide to leave the netgear in for any reason, would it need to go behind the linksys or could I do the same things with it for the pass-throughs?

My husband is a gamer (aces high) and right now he's got his box plugged into the netgear at the moment. he probably messed around and forwarded all the good ports to himself when I wasn't looking Very Happy

I would be interested to try your setup and see what, if any, effect it has on stuff.

laureltn
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justpaul
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Could you give me a few more details?

Is the Netgear a hub or a NAT router?

If router, I assume it gets a public ip on the wan, then sets up a private subnet (say, 192.168.1.0). I also assume your linksys is a broadband router/wireless ap like I have) so on the wan side you have it getting an ip address from the private pool the linksys created (ex, 192.168.1.100)and creating another private subnet (ex, 192.168.2.0) and having all of your workstations exist on that subnet. Port forwarding would have to be setup on both NAT boxes in order to get through to your pc's in this scenario.

If that is the case, I would say yes, you could use some optimization and remove a couple hops (less hops = better gameplay).

If the Netgear is a hub, then I am not sure how you could put it in front of your router unless your ISP has given you more than one public IP address (highly unlikely unless you are specifically paying for it). Both units (linksys and vt1000) would be trying to get the same IP from the dhcp server (once again, assuming your modem device handles the authentication like mine, not pppoe auth). You would want to put your hub daisychained to the private side of your nat router (once more, assuming you have more pc's than the router has connections on the back which is why you would need the hub).

Please straighten out a few of my assumptions and I'll tell you the best way (in my opinion) to setup your system.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

JustPaul:

Sorry about that. The netgear is -- well, WAS -- a router. I decided to get off my duff and get it out of the loop since we really didn't need it anymore. We're back to just Moto surfboard modem to V1000 to Linksys BEF11SW4. Haven't messed with NAT. Did some pingplotters tonight and there's not much going on.

My husband called comcast tonight and they said we should still have the 3 mb up speeds by month's end. May not need to do anything then, but turning the Moto into a bridge versus a router may be okay too.

Troy, my buddy in support, and I chatted about it. He said it works okay as long as I don't have two devices trying to pull IPs. Right?

Laureltn

p.s. man, what timing. I get the netgear out of the loop, first web site I try is this one and it's DOWN. Thought I'd cooked everything. But it's all fine -- just a bad coincidence!
Laureltn
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Posts: 220

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

JustPaul:

Holy Cow! I decided to experiment with turning the MTA into a bridge. Well, unless I missed a step or just plain did something wrong, it was not a success, shall we say?

1. I hooked my pc up to the MTA and turned off the Enable DHCP/NAT. I went ahead and disabled the stealth forward I had for the one port that showed open before, the telco.

2. I checked the linksys with my pc and it was already set to obtain DHCP.

3. I put all the cables back where they belonged and rebooted.

4. Nothing worked. NOTHING! Yipes!!!

I had a heckuva time getting back into the MTA to reset things. (Finally did the static IP like I saw posted in another thread. I never could get another internet connection until I put everything back the way it was. I also had to reset everything a few times before I got my dial tone back.

Maybe my Linksys BEFW11S4 is older or something and doesn't have the same guts?

I had to get it all put back together before my husband came home and killed me for screwing it up!! Embarassed

laureltn
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justpaul
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Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

wow, sorry for the mess-up.

If you were to experiment again, I would try this:

[Before you start] Open browser, go to 192.168.1.1, username/pass admin/admin (assuming you have not changed the defaults of the linksys router) check the bottom window and make sure "obtain an ip automatically" or "static ip" is set. Go to status page, record ip address for wan connection (it will probably be 192.168.102.100).

[Step 1] Unplug your pc from the linksys, set your lan connection to obtain ip address automatically (dhcp), connect the pc directly to your modem. From a dos prompt, type ipconfig /renew [enter] followed by ipconfig [enter] record your ip address. It should not be anything that starts with 192.168.x.x. Open your browser, surf somewhere (except this site, it keeps going down Very Happy ) If this step fails, then you need to reexamine what is needed from your isp to get online (username/pw etc)

[Step 2] Unplug your pc from the modem set the pc's ip to 192.168.102.2/sub 255.255.255.0/gw 192.168.102.1 , connect your pc to the pc port of the vt1000 and browse to 192.168.102.1 disable nat, set the wan side to dhcp if it isn't already (don't forget this step!!!). Save changes and allow the mta to reboot.

[Step 3] Unplug your pc from the vt1000, set the ip back to dhcp like you did in step one. Plug the wan port of the mta into the back of your modem, plug the pc port of your mta to your pc. Check your modem and pc for link lights showing valid connections to the mta. From a dos prompt, type ipconfig /renew [enter] followed by ipconfig [enter] record your ip address. It should not be anything that starts with 192.168.x.x. Open your browser, surf somewhere. If this step fails, then either the mta is not forwarding properly, there is a connection problem, or your dns settings are not set properly.

[Step 4] Unlplug your pc from the mta, plug the linksys wan port to the mta pc port, plug your pc into the lan side of the linksys. From a dos prompt, type ipconfig /renew [enter] followed by ipconfig [enter] record your ip address. It SHOULD start with 192.168.x.x. Open a browser and attempt to surf somewhere. If this fails, open 192.168.1.1 (assuming the ip address the linksys gave you was 192.168.1.x) enter username password (default admin/admin). Go to the status page and make sure the wan ip address has some ip other than 192.168.x.x. You may need to click dhcp release/renew.

That should do it, if you follow these steps and record where the train left the tracks, we can troubleshoot what to do next.
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