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BlahFrickinBlah
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Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 12
Location: TiVo Hell

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You must be 2 of the very few who read every single thing on a TOS or lying. I know of no one that actually reads every TOS of everything they sign up for. Hell, I didn't even read your entire post.
People want cheaper service and that's why they are willing to switch. Why have a land line or a cell "just in case"? It defeats the purpose of getting the service in the first place. I have a cell...it doesn't get reception in my house.

Quote:
The Government and the consumer will not wait 10 years for 911 to become a reality to Voip companies.


That's why the Gov has told them they now have 120 days to get it together. Now why do you think the Gov told them to get it done in 120 days? Because not having reliable 911 is not acceptable. You guys are looking for loopholes. Rolling Eyes
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paulanddonnaknight
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Joined: May 07, 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Lafayette, Indiana

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

BlahFrickinBlah wrote:
You must be 2 of the very few who read every single thing on a TOS or lying. I know of no one that actually reads every TOS of everything they sign up for. Hell, I didn't even read your entire post.
People want cheaper service and that's why they are willing to switch. Why have a land line or a cell "just in case"? It defeats the purpose of getting the service in the first place. I have a cell...it doesn't get reception in my house.


I reckon that 98% of people don't check the TOS before signing up for anything, But 100% should read it before complaining!

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jnuzzi
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Joined: Feb 02, 2005
Posts: 216
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

BlahFrickinBlah wrote:
That's why the Gov has told them they now have 120 days to get it together. Now why do you think the Gov told them to get it done in 120 days? Because not having reliable 911 is not acceptable. You guys are looking for loopholes. Rolling Eyes

If you would have read my entire post you would have noticed this:
jnuzzi wrote:
That being said, I do believe that ALL Voip providers should provide e911 service.

I do feel that not having reliable 911 is an issue. However, I knew about this limitation when I signed up and I accepted it. I am guessing that you chose not to read the TOS and now you want to complain that you did not know about something that was clearly stated in the TOS that you chose not to read. Rolling Eyes

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chupper
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 8:01 am    Post subject: 911 & Me Reply with quote Back to top

Here's the bottom line.

I'll never trust Vonage to deliver efficient 911 service. I will only trust the ILEC, as much as I hate them.

Right now I am just in an apartment with my wife. When I move into a house I will still use Voip but wire a true copper connection (local dial tone only for 911 service) from the ILEC so that if my family needs to, they can dial 911 in the event of a power failure or catastrophe.

If there is a huge crisis, I simply trust the phone lines more than I trust Comcast to deliver me a communications resource. I most certainly applaud Vonage for hooking up with ILECs across the country to get E911 service, but UPSs only last so long and copper & fiber are more reliable than Comcast's "when it rains the service goes out" coax.

A family of more than 2 should most definitely have 1 copper line running into their home for emergency services. Perhaps wiring it to an "emergency phone" or wiring all phones in the house to be two line even if the power fails.

That's my $0.02 until coax becomes as old as telephone wires. There just have been too many deaths and close calls related to Vonage's 911 service.
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cid92
Vonage Forum Senior
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

BlahFrickinBlah wrote:
You must be 2 of the very few who read every single thing on a TOS or lying. I know of no one that actually reads every TOS of everything they sign up for. Hell, I didn't even read your entire post.
People want cheaper service and that's why they are willing to switch. Why have a land line or a cell "just in case"? It defeats the purpose of getting the service in the first place. I have a cell...it doesn't get reception in my house.

Quote:
The Government and the consumer will not wait 10 years for 911 to become a reality to Voip companies.


That's why the Gov has told them they now have 120 days to get it together. Now why do you think the Gov told them to get it done in 120 days? Because not having reliable 911 is not acceptable. You guys are looking for loopholes. Rolling Eyes


I don't necessarily read everything but it was glaringly obvious to me when on page three of the Linksys PAP2 manual it talks about activating 911. Then when I went to the website for my account, on the features page, top item in RED is the 911 activation option. I read the FAQ's and there was info in there about 911 not being "true" 911. It even mentions it when you are running through the activation process.

I wasn't looking for loopholes with my quote. Vonage, in my eyes, should have had the 911 issue hammered out before they ever offered their product to the public. Honestly I think it's a joke that you have to "activate" 911 dialing but I accepted it when I signed up for the service. 911 should be standard. Customers expect it. Since the major four phone companies don't like competiton, especially competiton that takes customers totally out of the copper line loop where they may never get them back, they have been slow in striking deals with Vonage and other Voip companies. I'm glad that the G has stepped in and said it's time to end this game and that 911 needs to be accessed by Voip customers.

Bottom line is that there is plenty of documentation on the fact that Vonage 911 is not really the 911 you think it is. All you have to do is read a little. Even with the impending 911 changes I still won't really trust the 911 service simply because your entire phone system with Vonage is web based. With some of the recent problems with Comcast coupled with the fact that your web connection could go down unexpectedly (or due to maintenance), I'd rather rely on the 911 service that my cell phone offers or as chupper said, get a cheap, dedicated copper line, for 911 only.
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assantisz
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: 911 & Me Reply with quote Back to top

chupper wrote:

If there is a huge crisis, I simply trust the phone lines more than I trust Comcast to deliver me a communications resource.


On 9/11/2001 and during the following few days the only way to get in touch with anybody was the Internet. The telephone system in NYC was overloaded and it was impossible to get any calls placed. From this experience I have to say that I trust my good ol' Time Warner Cable more than Verizon. That and a battery powered transistor radio.
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chupper
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 911 & Me Reply with quote Back to top

assantisz wrote:

On 9/11/2001 and during the following few days the only way to get in touch with anybody was the Internet. The telephone system in NYC was overloaded and it was impossible to get any calls placed. From this experience I have to say that I trust my good ol' Time Warner Cable more than Verizon. That and a battery powered transistor radio.


It's 50/50 really. I'm talking physical, you are talking data (call handling).

You do make a good point, though.

However what I was implying was I literally trust copper and fiber more than I trust coax. If you were to average the total minutes of outages for a specified time, I'm sure you would find Comcast's outages and outage lengths far surpass SBC or Verizon.

When I have a family, I will be using Copper, Voip, and Amateur radio for emergencies.
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scots
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Joined: Dec 08, 2004
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Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

cid92 wrote:
Honestly I think it's a joke that you have to "activate" 911 dialing but I accepted it when I signed up for the service.


Just curious...why do you think it's a joke that you have to activate 911 with Vonage? You can plug your phone adapter into any internet connection and use it anywhere. Just because Vonage has a billing address and a mailing address (which may or may not be the same) on file for you doesn't mean that you're going to be using your phone adapter at either of those addresses. Vonage has no way of tracking down a physical address by the IP address that a person currently has. They have no way to control whether or not a customer moves the adapter from one place to another. They don't know whether or not you've moved your adapter to a new location just because you have a different IP address (you could have just switched ISP's). They could determine who the ISP is by the IP address, but the ISP isn't going to give out a customer's info without a court order. The billing address Vonage has on file for me is a P.O. Box, and the mailing address they have is my office. I don't hardly think I'd be calling 911 from a P.O. Box (I'd have to be REALLY tiny to do that), and I certainly wouldn't want them sending emergency personnel to my office when I'm calling 911 from home.

Also, with Vonage you could be living in New York City and have a Los Angeles phone number. You wouldn't want to call 911 and get connected to emergency services in Los Angeles just because you have a Los Angeles number, would you? When I first got Vonage they didn't have any numbers at all in NC at that time, so I took an Atlanta number. (I've since switched to a Raleigh number.) I know I wouldn't have wanted to be connected to emergency services in Atlanta...might have taken a while for them to get to me!

With traditional phone service you're hardwired into the system, so there's no question about where you're calling from (unless you've wandered off to your neighbor's house with a cordless phone). That's why you have to "activate" 911 on Vonage and tell them what address you're using the service at. I don't think it's a joke.
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cid92
Vonage Forum Senior
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

scots wrote:
cid92 wrote:
Honestly I think it's a joke that you have to "activate" 911 dialing but I accepted it when I signed up for the service.


Just curious...why do you think it's a joke that you have to activate 911 with Vonage? You can plug your phone adapter into any internet connection and use it anywhere. Just because Vonage has a billing address and a mailing address (which may or may not be the same) on file for you doesn't mean that you're going to be using your phone adapter at either of those addresses. Vonage has no way of tracking down a physical address by the IP address that a person currently has. They have no way to control whether or not a customer moves the adapter from one place to another. They don't know whether or not you've moved your adapter to a new location just because you have a different IP address (you could have just switched ISP's). They could determine who the ISP is by the IP address, but the ISP isn't going to give out a customer's info without a court order. The billing address Vonage has on file for me is a P.O. Box, and the mailing address they have is my office. I don't hardly think I'd be calling 911 from a P.O. Box (I'd have to be REALLY tiny to do that), and I certainly wouldn't want them sending emergency personnel to my office when I'm calling 911 from home.

Also, with Vonage you could be living in New York City and have a Los Angeles phone number. You wouldn't want to call 911 and get connected to emergency services in Los Angeles just because you have a Los Angeles number, would you? When I first got Vonage they didn't have any numbers at all in NC at that time, so I took an Atlanta number. (I've since switched to a Raleigh number.) I know I wouldn't have wanted to be connected to emergency services in Atlanta...might have taken a while for them to get to me!

With traditional phone service you're hardwired into the system, so there's no question about where you're calling from (unless you've wandered off to your neighbor's house with a cordless phone). That's why you have to "activate" 911 on Vonage and tell them what address you're using the service at. I don't think it's a joke.


If you ask a majority of the consumers out there what they think about having to activate 911, they may look at you funny because it's a feature that consumers just expect to have with their phone system. Some of what you pay the regular telco's on a monthly basis goes towards your 911 access so that is why people don't think about it. Of course that's not the case with VoIP....at least not right now. If Vonage had struck all the "proper" deals with the telco's, they could have easily made it so that you plug in your system and everything just works. They could use the info that you registered with as your main contact info for 911. They could have then issued something saying if you reside somewhere different than your signup information, fill out this form for 911 usage. I understand that this still would not be fool-proof. I know someone that signed up for Vonage here in the states but the device is in Korea right now. That would be one hell of a 911 call. I think its a joke to have to activate 911 since 1) it's not really 911 2) Vonage should have figured this out long ahead of rolling out their service.

All that being said, I've activated 911.....or PSAP (let's call it what it really is). I did it the day I signed up for Vonage. I understand the ramifications of the service not being true 911 but PSAP. What I don't understand are these people like the couple in Texas that got shot by a home intruder. Their daughter had to go to the neighbors to dial 911. Why? Because they didn't even bother to activate the PSAP feature. They are now suing Vonage for something they did not take responsibilty for. I also don't get how people get so pissed off over a service that they don't really have...911. Everything I've read clearly states that you are not dialing 911. What is so hard in understanding this? Really.
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johncostanzo
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Joined: Feb 21, 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Kent, WA

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 6:34 pm    Post subject: I never heard back from vonage if this problem was resolved Reply with quote Back to top

I have been waiting to hear back from Vonage on the status of my open 911 issue. I was last told it would take about a week to address and that I would received another email... it has been sometime and I haven't heard any updates.

The ticket number is 1931256. Could some one who works at Vonage please look up this ticket and see what the status is? If it has been fixed can I re test it?

They were to address the PSAP issue on my account (See previous post). Calls I made to 911 were routed to a seattle based PSAP and not the one for my location.

Thanks in advance,

John
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