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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:51 am    Post subject: Union Busting Reply with quote Back to top

Wow... alot of anti-union vitriol. I expect much of it is misplaced.

I agree that many unions are anti-competitive and handcuff companies from pursuing the best growth policies that they can these days. In many cases, unrealistic union demands make US industry non-competitive.

But I am surprised at the criticisms of union work as so shoddy. Say what you will about the Bells, but I'm confident that 90% of the homes in this country have cleaner, more rationally and better installed phone wiring than cable co. wiring... and that's due to the union workers for the Bells putting this stuff in over the past 50 years (note: living in the northeast, i'm mostly talking about older housing stock).

We've done alot of work on my old house over the past few years. One company we used in the past has always stood out to my wife and I as having the cleanest, most meticulous workers (the kind that you don't have to check up on everyday) -- my HVAC guys. I always thought it was funny. We've had these come in to look at stuff and they've even told me *(in a nice way)* what they thought of some of the other work that was being done in the house at the time. Of course, their rates have always been high, but they've always been spot on.

Not coincidentally, we recently found out that that company provides probably the only union workers we've used for our various remodel projects. I was not surprised at all.

They are more expensive certainly. And I don't always want to bear that expense. But shoddy workmanship? Rarely. Sight unseen, I would pit union tradespeople against their non-union counterparts every time.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

robertplattbell wrote:

You come on to this site and whine because some customer service guy in INDIA can't answer your questions about encrypting Voip which you think is necessary because "maybe" someone might tap into your call.

But you admit that it hasn't been done yet, would likely be hard to do, and that in order to do it, you'd have to tap at one end of the connection or the other, and know where and when to tap.

GardRailz wrote:

You are right on a few points:

* To obtain the full packet stream, one must either obtain access to one of the end points (as my demonstration proved), OR obtain access to a provider's network and tap their uplink(s).

* It is easier for the general population to 'hack' their neighbors phone service and make calls using their land lines by connecting alligator clips to the posts in their phone box.

* Actual man in the middle attacks on Voice over IP systems haven't been documented all that well. I personally know of none, however I know of many situations where calls have been intercepted and monitored.

I believe I ^C'd and ^V'd that correctly... No where did i say that capturing traffic was not possible, or hasn't been done yet. I simply stated in my third point that I know of no documented man in the middle attacks. Clearly agreeing with you on a few of your points isn't enough. Maybe you should re-read what you're responding to a few more times before you make snap statements about individuals contradicting themselves.

My posts are for individuals that aren't turning a blind eye to information security. The information is here to educate. If you don't like my posts, stop responding to them, or better yet, don't read them. Be an ostrage and shove your head in the sand.

I've reviewed the synopses of your posts, and clearly you have technical experience. It's been my experience though that individuals that are technical typically don't take security into account because it may interfere with what they want to do.

Put your head in the sand just don't blame anyone when you have grit in your mouth.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

robertplattbell wrote:

And in every instance, the union guys said "it will never happen here". But it did. When you are making 4 or 5 times the going wage for unskilled labor in your market, something isn't right.

Now it is your turn. Americans have been looking for an alternative to the horrible service of the telcos for nearly a century. We've had it up to here with Ma Bell.

Or do you really think the "service" you provide is top notch?

As a consumer, I'd have to disagree, vehemently.

Reality check, my friend!

Like I said, Wal-Mart is hiring. The wages there are a better indicia of the REAL worth of your "services".


Wow- You really have no clue, do you?

Ok, Mr Robert. I make $53,000 a year or roughly 26.00 an hour working for a regional Bell as a represented CWA central office technician. I don't care who knows. I install & maintain circuits anywhere from a POTS dialtone up to OC192 & everything inbetween. I work on Lucent 5ESS switches and Nortel DMS switches. I routinely work on all kinds of fiber & fiber products including Lucent DMX, DDM2000's, FT2000's and countless other pieces of transport equipment. I know all of this is most likely greek to you but your assurtion that we don't deserve what we make is utter garbage.

I wish, for a second that "Ma Bell" would shut down for the sake of arguement. The whole country would literally shut DOWN. Airplanes would be grounded because FAA circuits would cease to exist. There would be chaos in every city with rampant crime as 911 & police service would be non-existant. Communication would cease to exist as you know it since ALL cell towers have T1's which pass through our offices. The list goes on & on. But YOU assume that all Ma Bell does is provide POTS telephone service. Us "unskilled" union workers maintain the most important pieces of communications that keep businesses & government sectors alive.

Its baseless to keep arguing with you since you already have your mind set that unions suck and Ma Bell is evil. I'm not here to defend either. I'm speaking my point to defend your attack on my work ethic because you assume that I don't deserve what money I make and that all whom belong to a union have horrible work ethics and do shoddy work. YOU ARE VERY MISGUIDED & MISINFORMED.

But then again, I'm just a measly 'unskilled union worker' who, according to you, deserves to work at wal-mart.

Ignorance at it finest.
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