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seattlezoid
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:52 am    Post subject: Clearwire Blocking VOIP Reply with quote Back to top

From zdnet:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/index.php?p=316
3/25/2005
Is this another Voip services block?
-Posted by Russell Shaw @ 8:42 am
"Advanced IP Pipeline reports today that wireless broadband provider Clearwire Corp. is apparently blocking outside Voip providers from its network.

A Clearwire spokesperson told advanced IP Pipeline’s Paul Kapustka that some Voip technologies "are problematic for wireless networks versus a wired network." The spokesperson also implied that granting open access to Voip services such as Vonage’s could tax network capacity.

Clearwire offers services in four U.S. metro areas, and expects to be in as many as 20 by the end of this year."

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reebok
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

this has been at the top of the forum here for two days now.

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seattlezoid
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry...That scrolls sometimes and didn't see it. Please excuse my incompetence

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scerruti
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I was actually hoping there would be more discussion on this case. This is where blocking becomes a little less clear-cut.

Clearwire prohibits Voip in their terms of service.

Advanced IP Pipeline wrote:
Vonage CEO Jeffrey Citron, who has argued that service providers should not arbitrarily block applications, expressed displeasure at Clearwire's rules.

"It's in [Clearwire's] terms of service," Citron said of Clearwire's plans to restrict certain applications. "But that doesn't make it fair and right."


Clearwire may not be subject to FCC regulation like Madison River.

Clearwire plans to offer Voip service in the future.

Vonage may be assisting users in violating their terms of service.

Advanced IP Pipeline wrote:
According to Vonage, it was able to resolve its customer's issues by changing the SIP port number for the end-user device. After the change, the customer was able to use Vonage's service again, Vonage's Shulz said.


I think Clearwire has the right to do whatever they want. Customers can vote with their feet if they don't like what Clearwire is doing.

However, Clearwire should not be blocking ports. If Voip use is a violation of the terms of service then Clearwire should be notifying customers and then terminating their service if the offending use does not stop. I think the issue to investigate here is how Clearwire responds to other violations of their TOS.

Furthermore, if Clearwire is prohibiting activities that are possible on Cable and DSL and they are claiming they are equivalent to Cable or DSL then they should be forced to more obviously post those differences. Having reviewed their site I don't think this is the case. I am more concerned about their statement "Access your favorite web pages, music, movies, photos and more" which seems to be misleading with respect to their terms of service.

Ultimately this may force Vonage and other Voip carriers to more explicitly spell out their broadband connection requirements, or even require a prequal of the ISP before activation. Not simply a prequal of the connection but an actual review of the ISP's TOS and network management policies. In this system, ISPs could request to be white listed in advance.

Of initial concern to me, Vonage assisting users in violating Clearwire terms of service, no longer bothers me. When Clearwire decided to use port blocking to stop Voip they, in a way, accepted that use on their network, just not on the default ports. Blocking ports is an ineffective way of blocking Voip and blocking access to Vonage might be illegal (restraint of trade).

If port blocking becomes common it is just going to force carriers to implement features in the protocol to avoid port blocking. I would rather have carriers using their resources to implement other features.

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ldvoipeng
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

OK, let me start this by saying I worked for this pittiful organization and I can tell you how they think(or don't for that matter) and all thier little dirty tricks.

First I must disclose my reasoning behind this. 1. everyone deserves to know the truth. 2. I work for them between 60-80 hours a week in thier NIC, which was responsable for building(and I was responseable for comissioning all thier equipment too) all the cabinets the sit at the base of cell cites. After breaking my back I was graciously handed a pink slip from two unknowledable individuals who know little to nothing about this industry, yet the fate of the company lay within thier hands...

They block all ports! Except the basic email and web ports, they block the rest. They serve to the customers on licencsed 2.6G wireless spectrum and then do wireless backhaul using unlicensed spectrum! That is problem number 1. Then, then also plan to have approx 50+ customers per sector, with a 20/50/or 100 Mbps backhaul. Most people would say that is fantastic. But in truth, is is miserable. Even though the backhaul from the wireless site to the pop at "high speeds" thier connection to the Inet is usualy only 1.5 Mbps(1 T1) or even two or three. When you have 50-200 customers on a link, trying to share that little bandwidth, you'd be lucky to get the 64k I see referred to on this sites posts.

Furthermore, these cabinets are not built to any type of standard(which is the reason for the NIC, to standardize them). For example, they do not heat shrink thier power connections, and all equipment is hooked to a set of power relays for remote monitoring and power cycling abailities.

If I were to give anyone any advice about this company, STAY AWAY FROM THEM! Why would you want to support a company that insists on maintaining ignorance? Furthermore, why would you want to pay a company for a service that is far less quality than many other established providers out there.

PS, thier "Lead Engineer" at the NIC, does not even know the difference between a torque head screwdriver and a precision screw driver...
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ldvoipeng, since you were a former employe maybe you could fill me in on this.


"The spokesperson also implied that granting open access to Voip services such as Vonage’s could tax network capacity."

How???

"VoIP technologies are problematic for wireless networks versus a wired network."

Example please.

I know this case is over but it was obviously all BS, and the only thing that they would do is hurt themselves, but I just want to know how they were justifying such a move that seems destructive for their customers as well as themselves

Lead Engineer at the NIC, does not even know the difference between a torque head screwdriver and a precision screw driver.

Maybe that explains it Confused
That pink slip was a God sent Smile
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ldvoipeng
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

There is no difference between Voip across cable modems, DSL or wireless!

Simply put it would tax network capacity since they do not have the bandwidth to support its customers to use Voip over thier network.

They massivly over subscribe thier backlinks(ie 250-1000+ customers across 2-4 T1s). Now granted, this is based upon information from 2 months ago, and I don't want to divuldge and "trade secrets", but they have no clue what they are doing.

Two day after starting there, I had to explain subnetting to thier engineers in Jacksonville. How can you be a networking company and not understand subnetting???

They block all ports! menaing you can do little to nothing except surf the overly commercialized Inet and send & read emails.

Yes, the pink slip was a God send! Simply put I was fired because refused to continue to work 6 days a week at 60-80 hrs a week. I had only one day off(Sundays). This was because they refused to hire more people. There were three of us(one was totally worthless, you probally have a better idea than he does).

Bear in mind, I speak from when I was there, a month ago... Things might have changed, but I highly doubt it. I built the

What is truly scarry, most people do not know any better, which is why I thought I should at least try to inform people, I can sleep better at night with a clear concious.

Most of the people at Clearwire are HAM radio ops. They know very little as far as computers, networking or IPing.. Especially the people at the NIC, where you would thhink they would be the most knowledgable. Then again, what do I know, I am only an engineer...

Futhermore, I did Voip for 3 years, using the big Cisco routers, and even developed proprietary soft switches... Vonage, if you are listening, I still have the international Voip routes I offered you a year ago, remember Apex Voice, Inc??? Smile
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