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You can recollect
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The devices are
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Hi these are most
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Post new topic   Reply to topic  Vonage® VoIP Forum - Vonage News, Reviews And Discussion » Vonage Canada
Author Message
DarKev
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 336
Location: Gatineau, QC

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

OK. I decided to test the Vonage 911 this morning. I dialled 911 and guess what, I got a message stating this:

STOP! YOU MUST DIAL 911 FROM ANOTHER TELEPHONE. 911 IS NOT AVAILABLE FROM THIS TELEPHONE LINE...etc etc.

How could this happen? This is a terrible mistake. Yesterday they sent me this email:

We have completed your activation request for 911 Dialing. You may now dial 911 from your Vonage Canada line.

When you dial 911, Vonage Canada will route your call to the nearest Public Service Answering Point (PSAP) responsible for providing emergency response services in your area, or the local police department, based on the following address:

xx Xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Gatineau, QC A1A 1A1

If the address is incorrect, please go to https://secure.vonage.ca/vonageca-web/, and update your address on the Dashboard Features page after you login. No action on your part is necessary if the address above is correct.

IMPORTANT: IF YOU MAKE A CHANGE NOW OR IN THE FUTURE, 911 DIALING WILL BE INACTIVE FOR SEVERAL DAYS UNTIL THE NEW ADDRESS HAS BEEN MAPPED TO YOUR LOCAL EMERGENCY RESPONSE CENTRE OR POLICE DEPARTMENT.

We are happy to provide you with the enhanced safety of 911 Dialing. Thank you for your business.

Email: customercare@vonage.ca
Phone: 1-877-272-0528
Fax: 1-732-333-1353
24 hours a day, 7 days a week

Thank You.

Vonage Canada
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miket603
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Burnaby, BC

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I just just tested my 911 service. The call is routed to the police non-emergency line for Burnaby. So for me, it works the way that the Terms of Service describes.

For wireline service, 911 calls from Burnaby, BC go to the Greater Vancouver 911 centre (called "Ecomm"). When they answer they ask "police, fire, or ambulance" and then "for what city". When you answer "police" for "Burnaby" you are transferred to the emergency police dispatch for Burnaby. It's too bad that the Vonage 911 service isn't directly routed to the emergency police dispatch for Burnaby. As it happens, I know the direct number for the Burnaby police emergency dispatch as I used to work in the alarm industry. The alarm industry uses the number to bypass the 911 system to avoid clogging up the 911 lines with alarm calls. If the alarm industry can obtain the emergency dispatch number for each city in the GVRD, why can't Vonage do the same?
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miket603
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Burnaby, BC

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: CRTC ruling on 911 service for VoIP providers Reply with quote Back to top

Here is an excerpt of a news release from the CRTC on 911 service for Voip Service Providers that was released this morning. It looks like a solution is on the way. This should force the ILECs to provide access to switch for 911. For the full news release, go to http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES/2005/r050404.htm

CRTC Decision on 9-1-1 Emergency Services for
Voip Service Providers

OTTAWA-GATINEAU — The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications
Commission (CRTC) today announced a decision that addresses the
requirements for voice over Internet protocol (VoIP) service providers to
offer emergency 9-1-1 service.

In this decision, the Commission requires Voip service providers who
provide fixed Voip service to provide the same level of 9-1-1 emergency
service that is provided by the incumbent telephone companies to their
existing customers (either Enhanced 9-1-1 or Basic 9-1-1 service), within
90 days from the date of this decision.

The Commission requires Voip service providers providing either nomadic
Voip service or foreign exchange Voip service to implement, within 90 days
of the date of this decision, an interim solution which provides a level
of service comparable to Basic 9-1-1 service.
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DarKev
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 336
Location: Gatineau, QC

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for letting us know this Mike. I think it is a good idea. I noticed that they did not mention anything about a customer 911 network charge. That's also good news.
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miket603
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Burnaby, BC

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

DarKev wrote:
Thanks for letting us know this Mike. I think it is a good idea. I noticed that they did not mention anything about a customer 911 network charge. That's also good news.


No problem DarKev. From what I read from the CRTC hearings on Voip that were held last year, Vonage's position is that they are already paying this fee through GT and therefore, they don't feel that they should be obliged to charge it as a separate line item on customer invoices. I guess this means that the fee is built into our subscription rate.

You might be interested to know that I sent an email to Patti Jordon of Vonage on the subject of 911 service and how it could be improved (I offered a solution that is better than routing calls to a non emergency number). Patti said "I have passed it along to our Director, Technology and Operations, as well as our Vice President, Marketing and Business Development, for their consideration and possible discussion with our 911 provisioning partner. We appreciate your input." After she sent this reply, I discovered that the CRTC decision was released this morning. I sent it to Patti to make sure that she was aware of it. She said " We're aware of CRTC ruling. No problem from our end." So, it looks like "real" 911 is coming soon. Well, at least "basic 911" which sounds like something similiar to the 911 access that you get with a cell phone.

Patti's answer sounds like the problem with 911 access is that access cannot be gained through the ILECs that "own" the switch due to a lack of cooperation on the ILECs part. I have seen this reason quoted in the US media as reason for the lack of 911 access there.
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DarKev
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 336
Location: Gatineau, QC

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

911 in Canada is newer. It's only been in the Gatineau area for about 10 years. When I lived in Halifax, they just got it towards the late 1990s. Perhaps because it is newer, and it appears to be more standard right across the country, Canada will have an easier time adopting to Voip. I know in the US they have dozens of flavors of 911 service. The US had 911 long before Canada had it, but because of this, the older telephone systems are not working as well as the newer ones. This means that some states may not be as efficient as others when it comes to handling 911 calls. However, Canada being smaller, and having this service recently installed country-wide - we have a better chance of standardizing 911 in Canada, and as a result customizing it to work well with Voip.

There is always going to be the issue of unplugging your adapter and taking it with you to another province, state or country. I am not sure how they will get around that. The onus is on the customer right now to provide the new address information. That is definitely going to be a tricky problem to overcome.
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miket603
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Burnaby, BC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Apparently, there is a hearing at the CRTC today to take questions about yesterday's decision. The CRTC classifies Voip into three categories: Fixed, Nomadic, and Foreign Exchange. Fixed providers will be obliged to provide e911 or basic 911 service within 90 days. Nomadic and Foreign Exchange providers (enter Vonage, Primus, etc.) must provide an "interim solution with basic 911 service". While the classifications seems obvious, Comwave is drafting a letter to clarify the CRTC’s definition of a fixed service as one that has no capability for mobility (such as Shaw Digital Phone etc.). Here is the full article: http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&lid=1&sid=58524
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DarKev
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 336
Location: Gatineau, QC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That was interesting reading.

The good thing about this is that if the CRTC is demanding that Voip providers also provide 911 service, then the other telcos will have to cooperate too. They will not be able to block Vonage or Primus if they want to make use of another telephone company's 911 system. If the CRTC is ruling this, then they would have to conform.
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miket603
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Burnaby, BC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yep, "basic 911" service as defined by the CRTC is better than service that we have now with Vonage. Basic 911 is defined by the CRTC as follows: "Basic 9-1-1 service consists of routing 9-1-1 dialed calls to a designated PSAP, which is a specialized emergency call-answer centre for all 9-1-1 calls originating within a specific geographic area. A PSAP agent connects a 9-1-1 caller to the required emergency services agency (police, fire and/or ambulance). The PSAP agent typically sees the caller's telephone number, but not the caller's location information. Thus, Basic 9-1-1 service is only effective if the caller can communicate his/her location to the PSAP agent."

What is of interest is Vonage's reply to this: "Vonage provided details regarding the 9-1-1 solution that it used in the United States, but noted that it could not be made available in Canada due to the fact that not all Canadian PSAPs accepted 10-digit routing, nor had 10-digit administrative lines to which calls could be routed. Vonage further stated that the 9-1-1 solution that it will implement in Canada would likely represent a partial solution."

I like to know what kind of "partial solution" they plan to implement. I hope that a partial solution doesn't mean routing calls to a non-emergency number which is process now. Well, whatever the solution is, we should see it in 90 days or less now that the ILECs have to open up their PSAP switches to Voip providers which was the main barrier to true 911 service in the first place.
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DarKev
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 336
Location: Gatineau, QC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I would think that the CRTC would not recommend routing these calls to non-emergency numbers. I think now that everybody knows that Voip is here, and many people are jumping onto the Voip bandwagon, they are not going to wait until fatalities occur before they do something about it. Then the public will be saying, "How come Voip is allowed to operate without proper 911 and people are dying because of it?" That won't look good for Voip or for the government for not reacting to such a serious situation.

Therefore I think that the CRTC is going to have it so that the Voip providers can patch their 911 calls directly to the appropriate emergency dispatch for your local "living" area.

It is still going to be very difficult to maintain all of this considering that people can travel with their adapters. I know I plan on taking mine to Florida.

My 911 is supposed to be working, but I just tried it again now and it is not working. Even though I received an email from Vonage last week stating that it was now on my line. That is worrisome. I think we better all test our 911 service to ensure it works. It will not be fun to dial 911 in a huge crisis only to find out that the call cannot be completed. What a huge oversight this was that Vonage sent out emails stating that 911 is working on my line when it is not. Others have had this happen too. I have been reading about it. I did send them an email last week. I think I better give them a call about this because it is rather serious.
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