Texas suing Vonage over 911 calls

Posts: 13 · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject:

ON that page, it indicates that it takes up to 48 hours to verify 911 setup. I am going on 7 days and it is still pending verification. Is this an issue or does it actually take more than the 48 hours indicated?

Thanks,

dconnor wrote:

http://www.vonage-forum.com/911.html

I encourage everyone to do it - hence that is why it is in my signature.

Posts: 2251 · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:44 pm Post subject:

mpost43062 wrote:

ON that page, it indicates that it takes up to 48 hours to verify 911 setup. I am going on 7 days and it is still pending verification. Is this an issue or does it actually take more than the 48 hours indicated?

Thanks,

dconnor wrote:

http://www.vonage-forum.com/911.html

I encourage everyone to do it - hence that is why it is in my signature.

I would be doing you an injustice if I suggested that you should not be concerned. You should inquire at Customer Service

Posts: 292 · Vonage Forum Master Joined: Oct 08, 2004 Posts: 292

Texas Vonage suit: here’s what Vonage is “guilty” of
-Posted by Russell Shaw @ 11:07 am

General
In my last post I described the lawsuit filed against Vonage by Texas Attorney GeneralGreg Abbott. The suit claims that Vonage is being vague about the fact that users are not being adequately told on sign-up that they must go through a separate sign-up procedure to obtain Vonage’s free 911 service.

In my opinion, the only transgression Vonage is guilty of is mediocre information presentation due to site content and related usability issues.

There are six such issues, which I identify below.

To form an opinion, I decided I needed to assess where within the sign-up procedure the 911 issue is first presented to customers. So to do so, I went through part of the Vonage sign-up process.

The first screen (also the Vonage homepage) has several icons that when clicked, lead to specific pages about the offer.

The second screen has information about the offer you clicked on. Toward the bottom of the page, a seven-item Q&A appears. The sixth question reads:

"Does Vonage offer a 911 Dialing emergency type of dialing service?
"Yes. Click here to learn more."

Clicking "here" takes you to an information page that in my judgment, clearly describes what you need to do to activate 911 service. There’s also a non-technical explanation of how the calls are routed to Public SafetyAnswering Points - and not emergency dispatchers. The fact that the address identification of the caller is limited to the address on file for the Vonage account is also explained.

If you happened to not notice the documentation about "911," notice is also given further into the sign-up process. It’s on the "Tell Us About Yourself" page, directly below the shipping address.

I’ve looked over this information as presented on these screens. Vonage can do a better job of articulating these 911 issues.

Here are my suggestions for how Vonage can improve the information about 911 calling on its site:

On the main page for each offer, have a pop-up with a clickable link to a 911 services information page. Sure, some pop-up blockers will "catch" this feature, but enough people will see it to make a difference.
On the same page, elevate the 911 question from the sixth of seven such questions to a bit more prominent a place- say the second or third question asked.
On the Tell Us About Yourself page, relocate the "911 Notification" box to a more visually prominent place on the page. Right now it is near the bottom of the page, between Enter Your Shipping Address and Terms and Conditions. My main issue with this placement is that when you have either of these boxes displaying in your browser,you do not see the "911 Notification" box. Someone in a hurry to fill out all this information could rapidly scroll down to the Terms and Conditions at the bottom of the page and miss "911 Notification" entirely.
For that matter, rename "911 Notification." To me, the term "notification" sounds like memo language. How about "911 Service Limitations?"
Shorten the Terms and Conditions. How many people read these documents thoroughly? One suggestion: extract the "Emergency Services- 911 Dialing" language and build it into a second Terms and Conditions document each potential subscriber must agree to.
Finally, provide more info on the nature of 911 over Voip- how it works, the limitations, the difference between 911 and E-911, and your alternatives. Offer this extra info in a PDF for those who feel they need to know as much about this issue before they sign up.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/index.php?p=308

Posts: 249 · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:56 pm Post subject: Ridicilous

I suppose Winchester will have to put, "Warning, do not point at foot and pull trigger" stickers on their rifles next.

How come everything is always someone elses fault? We seem to becoming a nation of Wimps!

Posts: 281 · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject:

I agree... you have to be a complete retard to not understand that 911 is not active on your line unless you activate it.

Further... I'm guessing this law suit is going to be thrown out.

There is no legislation saying Voip providers even HAVE to offer 911. Vonage gave a message stating "Please use another phone, 911 has not been activated on this phone".

Vonage didn't direct them to the wrong PSAP... they just didn't offer service. There is NO legislation stating they need to offer it.. Vonage states EVERYWHERE that you need to set it up for it to work...

I for one hope the judge rules in Vonage's favour and makes the attorney general pay for all fees involved in this extremely frivolous lawsuit.

Posts: 492 · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:44 pm Post subject:

There is no point in getting bent over this. Look at the facts. Houston wants to sue a company in New Jersey because a Texas resident was negligent in signing up for 911 after being clearly informed that it must be done. You don't have to be a genius to see how absurd this is. Its like a State suing the Ford company because a driver was too dumb and lazy to put on his seat belt before he drove into a tree. Sorry, its tough cookies if your own stupidity causes you injury. 20,000 people a year get shot by unloaded guns, so let's sue the gun manufacturer.

While I was waiting for my 911 programming. I found out the phone number of the Public Safety Access Point and put it on speed dial. I also put up an 8x10 instruction sheet on how to use it, what to say, etc. It's still there today in case its a friend, neighbor, relative that has to use it because I'm unable to. How many of you out there have gone that far? What happens if you are incapacitated?

This Texas person was negligent in their responsibility to themselves and their family. There is no one to blame but themselves. To sue Vonage is just further proof of their irresponsibility.

Posts: 196 · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Ridicilous

OldSnipe wrote:

I suppose Winchester will have to put, "Warning, do not point at foot and pull trigger" stickers on their rifles next.

How come everything is always someone elses fault? We seem to becoming a nation of Wimps!

I was thinking more along the lines that we're a nation of Democrats, ACLU members and attorneys. To them nothing is an individual's fault.

Posts: 1424 · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject:

All your points about people being stupid are valid, but that is exactly why the State of Texas is suing Vonage.

The State of Texas knows there are a lot of stupid Texans that need to be protected from their own stupidity. The intent of the lawsuit will be to gain additional protections for stupid people in the future.

The success of this lawsuit will be determined not on the merits of Vonage's efforts to date to inform people of the 911 situation, but by how successfully the AG's office can argue that the people of Texas are really, really stupid.

This is not a lawsuit about a stupid person suing for damages, it is about a State wanting to protect itself from financial results of its own citizens' stupid mistakes in the future. When faced with the choice of educating their citizens or forcing a corporation to idiot proof a product, which is cheaper?

(note to Texans: this could have happened anywhere, don't take it personally)

Posts: 281 · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject:

That's not the case at all.. if it was... a letter written to say Jeffery Citron which stated the facts of how the AG felt things weren't clear enough would be in order.

Instead they bring a law suit which costs everyone money, and is time consuming.

The Terms of Service (which everyone agrees to) state that 911 is NOT activated until you request it.... sorry but that customer AGREED to be BOUND by the terms of service.

This is no different then signing up for an ISP, which prohibits spamming, then spamming, and then sueing when your account is terminated.

If you didn't read the TOS.. well sorry.. that's YOUR problem... you can't just click through those things...

I'll have you know I read every line of the Vonage TOS... ESPECIALLY the 911 lines.. when signing up for my account.

More then likely these people either didn't read the TOS and agreed, or just didn't feel the need to activate 911 (if this is the case that's even worse!!!)...

I mean come on it's in BIG RED LETTERS in the customer front-room... when you go into settings.... these people must never have setup voice mail either....

Quote:

"This Houston family's moment of crisis signals a dire need for Vonage to clearly communicate to its Internet telephone customers that 9-1-1 access may not be available to them," Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott said in a statement. "This is not just about bad customer service; it's a matter of life and death."

Ummm.. so what... big bold capital "911 SERVICE IS NOT ACTIVATED ON YOUR LINE YET" in each e-mail that they send is not enough?

Posts: 3 · New Forum Member Joined: Mar 20, 2005 Posts: 3

I honestly thought the "spilled coffee in the lap of the McDonald's customer" was ridiculous but this takes the cake. I cant tell you how many times Vonage clearly stated that the provisions and limitations of their 911 system.

I manage the 911 networks and computer systems for Sumner County TN ( just outside of Nashville ) and have Vonage at my home. Yes, I know the difference between their service and the Bells. I also thoroughly understand the inner workings of PSAPS and 911 dispatch centers. Vonage does an excellent job of explaining, in plain English, the difference between their service and regular land-line 911. People need to wake up and take some responsibility for their own actions. I am truly sorry for this families loss and certainly don't mean to demean or disrespect their tragedy, but what we have here is an outlayer. The only good that can come from this, is a speedy move toward E911 nationwide. Vonage should not have to negotiate with each local entity for 911 support, if this tragedy starts the way toward legislation to fix this then hooray.

If you want to start a law suit, check the reliability of phase 2 compatibility for cell phones. We test cell-phones all the time and most don't give the caller's GPS coordinates to the 911 center either. Of course the salesman wont tell you that. But we make official inquiries and get all kinds of idiotic responses like, "well it works great outside". It appears if this family had cut their phone line and used only cellular the same result would have been likely. So whats more risky, having your 911 call route through a non emergency Administration line, that is recorded and most often answered by the 911 dispatcher, or have your phone give nothing more than the location of the cell tower? Think about it.

This whole thing is ridiculous.

Thank You I am done. Very Happy