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rfazekas
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think he's right. Bell has ripped all of us off for too many years. In the past, they never needed to care about treating their customers right, because nobody had a choice. Bell landline was the only thing. Not anymore! With so many Voip companies now, Bell has pissed too many people off, and they will loose in this game eventually. Bell is coming out with Voip this year, but it's too late. Too many years of paying outrages prices and receiving little in return. Even if they dropped their prices on landline, I think people will still say goodbye to Bell.

I am very suprised that Bell is allowing people to have DSL service without a landline. People have been waiting for this for years. Some how I think they were forced to maybe by the CRTC, and it was not their choice.
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DarKev
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It sounds like you've been through the same thing that I and many others have with Bell. I can see that company folding some day. Do I feel sorry for them? No, it is not like they were not given ample chances to treat their customers properly and offer more fair prices.

I remember when Sprint first came to Canada. They offered unlimited long distance calling for $20. per month. Prior to that we were paying almost $1.00 per minute if you called before 6 PM. Guess what, after Sprint announced the $20 unlimited plan, Bell did this too. All of a sudden, Sprint could not offer this any more because they were running out of circuits. Their customers were getting constant busy signals and calls were not going through because they could not upgrade fast enough. So Sprint had to put a cap on the unlimited calling, and they reduced it to 800 minutes for $20 per month. Guess what? Bell did the same thing, even though they had ample circuits to complete the calls. Not to mention the multi-billion dollar profits they get each year. They have Bell ExpressVu, Bell Global which owns CTV - the biggest Canadian Television Network. This company is becoming way too big and they have got their hands into too many pies. So what if one customer is annoyed with them? What do they care when they have millions of customers. You as an individual are very insignificant to them. I would prefer to deal with a company that does not have so many customers. They tend to treat you better and provide better service. Thanks to Vonage, I now have a decent choice! I am so appreciative of Voip, and to Vonage for coming along and giving us a way to unleash ourselves from the heavy monopoly of Bell. Just be careful not to fall into their trap.

The one and ONLY reason that they are offering naked DSL is because many people are leaving them to switch to a Cable Modem. Why? The answer is simple. If you want Voip, you obviously don't want to pay for Bell telephone service too. Yet, without Bell Telephone, you could not have DSL high speed. People were therefore leaving them and going with Rogers Cable, or Videotron Cable, or Eastlink Cable, or Shaw Cable, etc. to avoid having to pay for two phone lines. In order to prevent more customers from leaving, Bell is now offering naked DSL. They are finally starting to worry.

The sad thing is, most people don't hold the bad things that they did to their customers against them. Bell knows this. That's why they don't care about bad customer service. They know that people will forgive and forget, and they will be nice while there is competition out there. If they can find a way to squash Vonage and the other Voip companies, they will, and they will go back to being the ruthless company that they have shown us to be over the years.

Just try getting through to Bell Mobility with a problem. You'll be faced with a maze of computerized prompts. When you finally get to talk to someone, they put you on hold, they laugh at your problems, they disconnect you, they generally will NOT give their names, they cannot understand why your bill is so high, they will not put you through to a supervisor. I could rant forever, but I'll stop. You get the drift.


Last edited by DarKev on Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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odinyvr
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Your story sounds like mine, but replace Bell with Telus.

I would hope that these big companies learn a few lessons but unfortunately they know that money motivates people rather than something that should really matter, respect.

I'm keeping my naked DSL only because it works better with my Voip. That's the only reason. To get the naked DSL has been a hassle, too many calls to count through the automated voice system, misdirected calls, hung up on, put on hold, laughed at , talked down on and in general make to feel that I should just shut up.

I'm happy there's a choice now. At this point Vonage cannot be compared to the big companies, after all they're new and still growing. Look at how long the Bell and Telus have been around, they still don't have their act together.
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ve3sy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I do not want to be accused of being a Bell lover however don't forget guys/gals this is a huge company who I think has been moving very quickly at adopting the new technologies before they do become another buggy whip company. Believe it or not Bell has been switching users over to IP based telephony for years - well before Vonage or Primus - however these have been the large corporate users who spend the huge monthly dollars.

Also don't forget that Bell and Telus are mandated by the CRTC to provide dial-tone to virtually all Canadians regardless of the true cost. Do you think that it costs Bell the same to provide me service in rural Ontario where they may be 2-3 subscriber lines per km as it would in a larger city? Of course not but as the poster from Wallaceburg found out, nobody but Bell is providing local numbers. Why? There is not a solid business case at this point in Wallaceburg and doubt there ever will be competitive services in 85% (geographically) of Canada. But Ma Bell and Pa Telus still need to by law provide service there.

However - I expect the reason Bell is unbundling DSL from circuit switched dial-tone is so they too can provide IP based dial-tone service to those within DSL range of a CO.

My disclaimer
I nor any of my family members hold any stock in Bell or Telus. Very Happy

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DarKev
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, Bell does provide services to MOST rural areas, but certainly not all. A friend of mine who lives in a rural community (Wakefield) in Western Quebec has been fighting with Bell for several years. Obviously they are not mandated to provide everyone with a dial-tone. The guy I know is without phone service because Bell wants him to pay $12,000 to have a poles and a line brought to his house. He has a cell phone, but at his home the cell phone does not work either because the nearest cell phone tower is 40 km away and the signal does not reach his home. Bell is not willing to budge at all. This man has no phone service by cell phone or land line. If there is an emergency in his house, he has no way to contact anyone except through the internet.

I suggested that he try Vonage over his high speed internet connection. He did try it, but had to get rid of it because he has a satellite dish system for his high speed internet. There was at least a 4-second delay between what he was saying and the called party. It was unacceptable, although in my opinion it was better than nothing. At least if there was an emergency he could call someone. He is very frustrated and is still fighting with Bell as we speak. I hope he eventually wins, but I would not hold my breath. Dial-tone anyone?
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ve3sy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You notice I said "virtually all Canadians" Sad I expect as a percentage it is well under 5% by population however I expect even after 10 years competitive services will be no where close to the same level of service.

If the new entrants where to force the incumbents (Bell/Telus) to throw in the towel - BTW this will never happen - you can hear the screaming now from those who live outside of broadband service areas. But rest assured, technology in the next 10 years will see greatly extended DSL or whatever it will be called then to allow broadband well in excess of the Rogers and the Shaws of this world to provide same over coax or fibre to the home.

I also see in my crystal ball that viable wireless services that are transparent to the customer will be replacing the copper and coax. With the new 3G technology around the corner, fixed data speeds in excess of 2mb are feasible however it will take some time before the cost of that service will come down to equal that of copper or coax.

I feel the current wireless technology is at about the 1200 bps level of modem technology. Just wait and see what services will roll out over the next 10 years.

No inside scoop here folks - I'm retired, however my working life was spent in wireless and I still try to keep my ear to the ground and let my mind dream - so to speak.

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odinyvr
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for pointing that out.

For the most part my beef is directed at their lack of effective customer support.

I signed up for Naked DSL on Feb 9th and as of today, it's still not up and running the way it was before I switched to DSL only. I cannot use Vonage on it properly.

They ran the only show in town for so many years that they didn't need to be competative or provide decent customer service. Instead of just learning to deal with their customers needs, their most recent solution was to swallow up the competition.

In the short term as customers we'll benifit from the competition of having Vonage or other Voip, but in the long-term it's just a matter of time before the big boys start trying to get their business back.

In the end the big companies own and maintain the lines, both Cable and Telephone. I've been reading people's concerns that the networks could be blocked or restricted to Voip from competitors other than the IPS themselves.

Where does it end? Is consistant service at a reasonable price too much to ask for? Rolling Eyes
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ve3sy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
In the end the big companies own and maintain the lines, both Cable and Telephone


Remember what I said above about upcoming wireless technology. Won't be next year but certainly within 5 years I think you will see competitive broadband via copper, coax and WIRELESS. Wireless technology is still in it's infancy. Remember when we thought we died and went to heaven when we got our first 9,600 baud modem? How in hell could it ever get faster? Well - take todays GPRS Edge or 1X data speeds and apply several orders of magnitude all for what we will be paying for copper or coax. Again this is just my guess at where we will be within 5 or so years.

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DarKev
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

They are not allowed to block Voip just because it is not from their own company. They are also not allowed to block your long distance provider should you wish to choose an alternate provider. There are laws in Canada now against this sort of thing.

So far as Bell goes, just remember that the surest things can change, and they will! Pacman
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spliff6669
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:58 pm    Post subject: My first post!.. lol I am in dire need of dry dsl... Reply with quote Back to top

Hello vonagers...
Just as a note, In Hull, Quebec, I had way better service with sympatico then with Videotron (cable). That was 3 years ago though. Bad service, slow connection durring 3-8 PM and expensive as hell. (accross from 2 colleges, and full of student appartments)
I did however change to a 3rd party dsl supplier though and saved 15$ a month. Not to mention the caps they implemented on videotron.

Anyways, this post is regarding Dry DSL, My question was who am I supposed to call / ask about the service? Can someone get names / extension numbers to people who know about the service?

I tried calling, and they had no clue what dry dsl, or naked dsl was, even less know when they would offer it.

I am moving into a new home on April 1st, and would like to start things off right, and not have to make changes after.

Also, when are us canadians getting the wifi Voip option?

My dream is the folowing...

1. 800kb up, 3MB down dsl for 30$ a month (gosonic)
2. Vonage wifi Voip at 40$ a month
3. No POTS... (AKA giving money to bell)
4. Beer at 20$ a case of 24...

All this comming from someone currently surfing on a 56kb modem, and paying 80$ a month for Telephone with bell.

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