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Post new topic   Reply to topic  Vonage® VoIP Forum - Vonage News, Reviews And Discussion » Vonage Forum Archive
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mbhn5204
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 492
Location: Denver, Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Your RT31P2 is a Plug and Play device. There is no need to open any ports anywhere. I suggest that you reset your RT31P2 to Factory Defaults by inserting a small pointed instrument, such as a pen or pencil into the reset button. The Reset button is located in the rear of the router just beside the power plug. Hold it in for some seconds and release it. Wait for the router to finish its restart procedure, usually indicated when all blinking lights have stopped.

Poor sound can be several things, the major cause is demonstrated here:
http://www.vonage.com/help_knowledgeBase_article.php?article=166&category=47

Dropped calls, likewise are indicated by:
http://www.vonage.com/help_knowledgeBase_article.php?article=268&category=0

As you can see, Network Connectivity is indicated in both poor sound as well as the dropped calls problems. I prefer to do my testing at:
http://www.dslreports.com and look for the Test+Tools link. Follow the directions to test your ISP speed and do the Tweak Test as a follow up. I am also fond of http://www.2wire.com which will give you an accurate figure for your bandwidth.

Follow the suggestions given by the tweak test. You will certainly increase you connectivity.

_________________
ISP: Comcast
Setup: Motorola SB5100 to RT31P2 to Local Machines

Last edited by mbhn5204 on Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kevinwilliams
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

There is no PUT command in the TFTP RFC. I suspect you are referring to an enhanced tftp server. I doubt Gaobot installs a secure server, though. A traditional tftp server that follows the RFC will allow anyone to read and write files. The host authentication files you mention are a feature of unix-like systems which can add some protection to insecure services, but these viruses and worms are usually targeted at Windows.

Although it is possible to secure a tftp server on a unix-like system to perhaps a secure level, exposing any open socket to the Internet is not wise unless absolutely necessary. We're kind of saying the same thing but at different levels, perhaps. What if someone told you to add the tftp server to your hosts.allow for anyone to connect to? I'm worried about the same thing but at the bastion level.

This brings us back to the original question. Why is it necessary to open ports 53, 69, and 123 inbound fromthe Internet? Should the documentation state outbound only? What about the other ports - do any of them need to be open inbound?
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peterwemm
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Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Danville, CA, US

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Uhhh.. Reality check time. Reply with quote Back to top

Folks seem to be forgetting that UDP is stateless. If you want to send a udp packet to query the time, you have to open the return path to get the reply. The TCP concept of "server" doesn't really apply to UDP protocols.

Take an NTP query. The ATA sends a datagram out with a source port of 123 and a dest port of 123. The "server" replies by sending a datagram from itself at port 123 to your ATA at port 123. Hence you may have to open udp port 123 if you want to receive a reply. Note "may". Many routers have NAT heuristics to figure out that if a machine makes a ntp query on udp port 123, it will be expecting a reply and will automatically redirect it.

What bugs me though is the instructions that tell people to set their routers to forward *all* udp port 53 packets to the ATA. Say what??? If you follow those instructions, then the replies to the DNS queries from other machines to the ATA. Nothing else on the network will be able do lookups..

When I have one of these behind a router/firewall, I set up for DHCP and tell the ATA to make its DNS (port 53) queries to the router, which proxies the dns request. You shouldn't have to forward port 53 at all.

You do need TFTP though because that is how the ATA downloads its firmware updates, and I thought it was how it downloaded its configuration/provisioning file. If you dont allow it to do tftp (remember, udp - both directions!) then it can't update itself.

Anyway.. if you plug one of these devices in behind a UPnP-aware gateway, then the ATA will automatically configure the port forwarding and open the firewall holes silently without your knowledge.

This is why I hope I dont have to give up my motorola ATA and downgrade to a linksys for a while yet. It is sitting outside my router/firewall and operating as a switch (that reserves bandwidth for itself first) and I get to use my static IP's on the gateway and a couple of other machines I have. It has its own IP address and I dont have to mess with any port forwarding or the like. But the PAP2 doesn't have the dual ethernet ports needed for this.

_________________
Vonage customer since March 2004. Customer of just about every other Voip provider out there too.
Asterisk PBX software, using Vonage softphone. ATA VT1005, rarely used.
ISP: Comcast (8M down, 768K up) *and* Sonic.net ADSL (1.5M down, 384K up) for Voip
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matth
Vonage Forum Master
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Joined: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 281
Location: Williamsport, PA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah well.. with STUN it all works fine behind a nat.. I have my Voip ATA behind my firewall and it works fine.
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peterwemm
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Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Danville, CA, US

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kevinwilliams wrote:
This brings us back to the original question. Why is it necessary to open ports 53, 69, and 123 inbound fromthe Internet? Should the documentation state outbound only? What about the other ports - do any of them need to be open inbound?


UDP has no concept of "direction" of connections. As far as firewalls are concerned, all udp queries you send are "outbound" and replies are "inbound". If you want to get a reply to your query, you need to open "inbound". NAT heuristics often make this "just work" though.

The udp ports 5060/5061 and 10000-20000 udp are for inbound packets too. A UPnP/plug-n-play router will do all this for you automatically and you won't get a say in it.

STUN is far better than port forwarding though.

_________________
Vonage customer since March 2004. Customer of just about every other Voip provider out there too.
Asterisk PBX software, using Vonage softphone. ATA VT1005, rarely used.
ISP: Comcast (8M down, 768K up) *and* Sonic.net ADSL (1.5M down, 384K up) for Voip
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kevinwilliams
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

peterwemm wrote:
Asterisk PBX software, with analog interface to Vonage ATA - because Vonage is too short-sighted.
ISP: Comcast (4M down, 256K up) *and* Sonic.net ADSL (400K down, 384K up) as a backup


Sweet setup, dude. I've wanted to check out Asterisk for a while now.

peterwemm wrote:
UDP has no concept of "direction" of connections. As far as firewalls are concerned, all udp queries you send are "outbound" and replies are "inbound". If you want to get a reply to your query, you need to open "inbound". NAT heuristics often make this "just work" though.

The udp ports 5060/5061 and 10000-20000 udp are for inbound packets too. A UPnP/plug-n-play router will do all this for you automatically and you won't get a say in it.

STUN is far better than port forwarding though.


Makes sense. I can't wait to get home and try some new options. I've never had any trouble with DNS, NTP or TFTP from any other machines behind my firewall, so I assume the NAT is handling this just fine. I hope that is the answer. It would be great if someone from Vonage would jump in and give the last word on this, but I will move forward with no ports forwarded.

<newbie_mode>
What is STUN?
</newbie_mode>
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matth
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 281
Location: Williamsport, PA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Vonage is not too short sighted.. The company I work for is about to roll out Voip and we are going to require the end user to use our sipura adapaters. It makes it 100% easier for tech support to trouble shoot issues. Plus they can be much more intelligant.

It also gives us more control over things.


Remember google is your friend:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=voip+stun&btnG=Google+Search

# STUN enables a device to find out its public IP address and the type of NAT service its sitting behind.
# STUN operates on TCP and UDP port 3478.

* STUN Client: A STUN client (also just referred to as a client) is an entity that generates STUN requests. A STUN client can execute on an end system, such as a user's PC, or can run in a network element, such as a conferencing server.
* STUN Server: A STUN Server (also just referred to as a server) is an entity that receives STUN requests, and sends STUN responses. STUN servers are generally attached to the public Internet.

STUN stands for: Simple Traversal of UDP through NATs
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dconnor
Site Admin
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Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Posts: 2264
Location: The Beach

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kevinwilliams wrote:


<newbie_mode>
What is STUN?
</newbie_mode>


http://www.vonage-forum.com/voip-acronyms.html#S

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ToddlerTN
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kevinwilliams wrote:
What I know isn't clear to you because you don't know me and think you know everything. Arrogance and security don't mix, paranoia and security do. I'm being paranoid about TFTP because it breeds viruses and worms. If you're confident that tftp is secure, why don't you expose a tftp server and post its IP address on some mailing lists or Slashdot?

Worms can infect a system with multiple viruses that are downloaded from tftp servers, ususally without the knowledge of the tftp server host. Tftp servers are not usually public because they have no authentication or security mechanism to prevent anyone from reading or writing files. Remember the Nimda worm? Where do you think those TFTP servers are? What about Gaobot.CRP? It
installs a tftp server.

You need to do your homework better, son.

But you're arguing about something that's completely irrelevant. Your beef was about Vonage wanting you to forward TFTP to your Vonage adapter, not your entire network.

The day someone writes a worm that installs itself on a Vonage adapter, please refresh this thread and remind us that you knew more than the rest of us.

_________________
Comcast 6/768
Vonage customer since 01/05
RT31P2 running behind WRT54G w/Sveasoft Alchemy-V1.0 v3.37.6.8sv
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kevinwilliams
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ToddlerTN wrote:

The day someone writes a worm that installs itself on a Vonage adapter, please refresh this thread and remind us that you knew more than the rest of us.


Please show me where I wrote that a phone adapter could be infected. I don't know much, but I know how to read.

Goodnight, everyone. It's been hell. I pray the toddlers in these forums are not representative of most Vonage users. They certainly are nothing like my friends who use Vonage and rave about it. Thanks to peterwemm and reebok, who offered advice instead of insults.
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