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kevinwilliams
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Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ToddlerTN wrote:
kevinwilliams wrote:
No, I haven't tried testing without the firewall becuase the whole network depends on it.

Besides, that is not the point. I'm asking about security issues with strange ports, not about traffic shaping!

Which is funny, since you started this thread by saying:

kevinwilliams wrote:
Since I'm having trouble with dropped calls and horrible quality (at the highest voice quality setting) I would like to know if this is the cause of my problem.

My phone adapter is behind my firewall.

So if you want to know if having your Vonage adapter behind the firewall is causing your problem, a common-sense test would be to temporarily bypass the firewall.


What I meant was that the troubles have led me to wonder about these ports. I would like to get an answer about the ports. I would not have asked about them if I were looking for help with call dropping. It was just for a point of reference, not a huge sidetrack.
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kevinwilliams
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Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

tommy13v wrote:
kevinwilliams wrote:
I'm asking about security issues with strange ports, not about traffic shaping!


You stated you had an issue with calls dropping and bad quality and that is why I asked about Qos.

I am just trying to assist. I use a linux firewall with Traffic shaping and had issues with the RT31P2 behind my firewall but apparently you are not interested.


I mentioned my call quality troubles as a point of reference. The title of the thread has nothing to do with call quality. Geez, you guys get sidetracked easily! Smile
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kevinwilliams
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Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

reebok wrote:
most people don't have to open ports because the connection is established by the adaptor. 53, not sure. 69, for firmware updates. 123 I believe for voicemail timestamping, but not totally sure there.
at any rate, I don't think any of this is the cause of your poor call quality. out of curiosity, have you tried it without forwarding ports?
also, pasting your detailed results from testyourvoip.com is helpful is diagnosing these sort of problems.


I'll try testyourvoip.com tonight when I get home. Thanks for the tip.

So, is the documentation wrong? It explicitly states that all those ports must be opened.

Quote:
If you experience any problems with your Vonage service, and are connecting through a firewall, be sure the following ports are allowed to and from the phone adapter.

Phone Adapters Internet ports:

* SIP ports 5060 through 5061 using UDP protocol
* NTP port 123 using UDP protocol
* TFTP port 69 using UDP protocol
* DNS port 53 using UDP protocol
* RTP ports 10,000 through 20,000 using UDP protocol
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ToddlerTN
Vonage Forum Evangelist
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well then what you said and what you meant were miles apart.

A security discussion begins like, "I have some concerns about opening these ports on my network. My phone adapter is behind my firewall."

A call for help about call dropping begins like, "Since I'm having trouble with dropped calls and horrible quality (at the highest voice quality setting) I want to know if this is the cause of my problem. My phone adapter is behind my firewall."

What you got was the answer...bypass the firewall and you'll find out if that's the cause of your problem.

_________________
Comcast 6/768
Vonage customer since 01/05
RT31P2 running behind WRT54G w/Sveasoft Alchemy-V1.0 v3.37.6.8sv
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matth
Vonage Forum Master
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Joined: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 281
Location: Williamsport, PA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

53 is for DNS yes.. Vonage adapater needs to be able to get OUT.
NTP is so the device can sync with nist.gov (I think that's it.. time.nist.gov?)... to get time on the device (for caller-id, etc).
TFTP is so the device can get OUT to vonage..

You shouldn't have to open those things coming IN... they need to be clear going OUT.

Yes.. worms spread via TFTP... but ummm think logically about this.. even if you opened tftp up to your Vonage router.... how's that going to affect yoru computer???? Worms can't run on the Vonage router... and it's not just going to 'jump' over to your computer!
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ToddlerTN
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kevinwilliams wrote:
So, is the documentation wrong? It explicitly states that all those ports must be opened.

Quote:
If you experience any problems with your Vonage service, and are connecting through a firewall, be sure the following ports are allowed to and from the phone adapter.

Phone Adapters Internet ports:

* SIP ports 5060 through 5061 using UDP protocol
* NTP port 123 using UDP protocol
* TFTP port 69 using UDP protocol
* DNS port 53 using UDP protocol
* RTP ports 10,000 through 20,000 using UDP protocol


I wouldn't say it's wrong because Vonage prefaces that by saying "If you experience any problems with your Vonage service...." If the devices are functioning properly, then those ports get opened by the Vonage adapter when it "calls home" periodically, so manual forwarding entries shouldn't be necessary. But when things aren't working right, Vonage says to try forwarding all those ports and maybe it will help...and maybe not.

I've tried it both ways with no difference at all.

_________________
Comcast 6/768
Vonage customer since 01/05
RT31P2 running behind WRT54G w/Sveasoft Alchemy-V1.0 v3.37.6.8sv
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kevinwilliams
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Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

matth wrote:
53 is for DNS yes.. Vonage adapater needs to be able to get OUT.
NTP is so the device can sync with nist.gov (I think that's it.. time.nist.gov?)... to get time on the device (for caller-id, etc).
TFTP is so the device can get OUT to vonage..

You shouldn't have to open those things coming IN... they need to be clear going OUT.

Yes.. worms spread via TFTP... but ummm think logically about this.. even if you opened tftp up to your Vonage router.... how's that going to affect yoru computer???? Worms can't run on the Vonage router... and it's not just going to 'jump' over to your computer!


Ok, but that is very different. Outbound is one thing, but the documentation says:
Quote:
be sure the following ports are allowed to and from the phone adapter
As I wrote originally, outbound traffic as a client of these services is perfectly normal and understandable, but inbound traffic doesn't make sense to me.

TFTP is used for hosting viruses/worms. Having a public TFTP wouldn't necessarily infect the host, but would be a repository for infecting thousands of other machines. I don't need that kind of traffic or attention.
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matth
Vonage Forum Master
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Joined: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 281
Location: Williamsport, PA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You clearly don't understand what TFTP is... do you think worms just pop out of TFTP servers? TFTP has alot of useful purposes.. and just running one doesn't provide or open you up for worms.
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kevinwilliams
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Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

What I know isn't clear to you because you don't know me and think you know everything. Arrogance and security don't mix, paranoia and security do. I'm being paranoid about TFTP because it breeds viruses and worms. If you're confident that tftp is secure, why don't you expose a tftp server and post its IP address on some mailing lists or Slashdot?

Worms can infect a system with multiple viruses that are downloaded from tftp servers, ususally without the knowledge of the tftp server host. Tftp servers are not usually public because they have no authentication or security mechanism to prevent anyone from reading or writing files. Remember the Nimda worm? Where do you think those TFTP servers are? What about Gaobot.CRP? It
installs a tftp server.

You need to do your homework better, son.
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matth
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Joined: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 281
Location: Williamsport, PA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ok.. I don't want to get into a flame war here..

Yes it INSTALLS the tftp server... a tftp server by itself is not insecure...
NIMDA could have just as easiliy installed an FTP server.
A properly configured tftp server will only accept PUT commands from authorized IP blocks/hosts. You set this up in your firewall/TFTP config.

Same with reading.. if you don't want someone to read tftp files, then just setup your host authentication files to not allow all but the few ips you want to access your tftp server.

Nimda also used it's own tftp server.
So again.. tftp is no different then ftp, telnet, www.... I could compromise your machine if you were running an infected version of some http daemon too....
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