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MrZumma
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So, would QoS need to be disabled or 'turned off' to get a true reading from Vonage's Speed Test?
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reebok
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

qos, as far as the linksys rt31p2 goes, throttles bandwidth while you're on the phone. if you aren't on the phone, it doesn't (shouldn't) affect your speed. if you are on the phone, it will, and this is how it's supposed to work.
I assume you mean
http://www.vonage-forum.com/voip-speed-test.html
which isn't actually a Vonage speed test but a speed test on this forum (which isn't an official Vonage company forum)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If it's configured and functioning correctly then yes, because in general you need to set your limits at 80-90% of the theoretical max, in which case your speed test results will be slightly lower with QoS enabled. So you should test things both ways to tweak your setup, and test at different times of the day (especially on cable, since it is a shared connection).

With QoS, you're sacrificing 10-20% overhead in exchange for prioritization of services. If your QoS setting is ever higher than your available uplink at that particular time, then QoS stops being able to do what it's supposed to do, since it thinks it can send more packets than it really can.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

reebok wrote:
qos, as far as the linksys rt31p2 goes, throttles bandwidth while you're on the phone. if you aren't on the phone, it doesn't (shouldn't) affect your speed. if you are on the phone, it will, and this is how it's supposed to work.

Two points:

- A proper QoS setting should be 80-90% of your max theoretical uplink, so regardless of the traffic type on your network, you're giving away as much as 10-20% off the top.

- There's some debate about how QoS works on the RT31P2 as I'm sure you know. I won't do the details here, but I bought a WRT54G with Sveasoft and the difference in QoS is amazing. Bottom line is the WRT54G does what you'd expect QoS to do, and the RT31P2 does not. At least that's what I was able to measure in my testing.

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reebok
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Two replies:
while you're on the phone? ok...yeah...so off the phone doesn't affect it. that's where the "throttles bandwidth while you're on the phone" thing came from. and depedning on the number you put in there, you might have good, bad, or no change in your call quality. depending on inet and network use at the time also of course. not sure what point you were trying to make here, besides it can affect your upload speed even more depending on what number you put in there, but the question wasn't about what to put for a qos setting.

sure, but it's still throttling bandwidth. this is as opposed to anything else (i.e. giving certain packets priority)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Actually the WRT54G with Sveasoft does give certain packets priority. For example, I set NNTP to bulk priority and SIP to premium and I can watch NewsBin slow down when I make a phone call while NNTP packets get buffered on the WRT54G. It's far more intelligent than what QoS is doing in the RT31P2.

And my point about the 80-90% QoS setting is that if you tell your router "I have 320k up" instead of 384k, it's going to limit your uplink to 320k at all times. At least that's how QoS is defined for most other devices...not sure what's really happening on the RT31P2 since people have reported results all over the map with that unit.

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Last edited by ToddlerTN on Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ah yes, I remember seeing a screenshot of that. thanks for the info.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I know that there are lots of questions on this forum regarding how Qos works (or at least should work) so I though I'd post a quick description of what is supposed to be happening. I can't guarantee that this is actually what's happening as it depends on the implementation.

All packets (tcp & udp, etc..) flow serially through the internet from the origination to the destination. At each router (starting with your RT31P2 to your highspeed modem (cable or dsl, etc,) to their routers....

At each router, there is a queue which is typically a First In First Out, meaning that the queue will send the first packet it receives out before it sends the next packet. Normally, this isn't a problem, but if your downloading or browsing at the same time your listening to a phone call, it may. Your router (RT31P2) is capable of handling speeds of 100Mb while your high speed Internet may range from 512K to 6Mb or so. To be really efficient, your router likes to fill the queue up so it can do other things while the data is being sent downline. (or received) When the queue needs attention, the router services it by putting in more data or taking more out. You should be able to see at this point that if the queue has a bunch of data in it, it may take a bit for your Voip packet to actually get sent to the interface as all the existing data in your queue must be sent first. The biggest backup is the modem as it generally handles the speed reduction from your router (100Mb/s) to your broadband connection (.5 - 8Mbs or so).

The easy way to make your connection seem speedier is to manipulate the packets of information in this queue. If you have a packet of streaming media, web browsing, etc.., you can just put that packet in the que normally. But if you have a packet of Voip data or telnet or ssh perhaps, where even small delays can present a big problem, you can give that packet "cuts" in line; put it at the front of the queue so it is the next packet out.

Unfortunately, your modem is where the biggest bottleneck in packets is and you don't have any control over what the packets are doing there. The routers answer to this is to pretend that your Internet speed is slightly less than it is. You throttle the packet flow in the router so that your modem is never backed up. This puts the bottleneck inside your router where you CAN manipulate the packets. Priority packets such as Voip get sent to the front of the line and bulk packets get put in the back of the line. It works pretty well but you have to sacrifice a bit of overall speed to make it work. You have to have the bottleneck queue under your control.

It's not foolproof either. At any time, any router along the packets path can run into a full queue that is not using Qos and you have the wait times increase again. But since the Internet as a whole generally runs faster than your individual link, you can take care of most of the problem by using Qos.

To set the values in the Qos, your download and upload speeds should be set at 10% or so LOWER than your Internet connection speeds. Then set Voip packets as "high priority". All this does is slow your router down to the maximum speeds you list (to force the bottleneck into your router) and then put high priority packets in the front of the line in the queue. It really is pretty simple if you think about it.

By the way, you can see if the router is really throttling packets like it should by setting the maximum values low (say 512Kb on a 4Mb line) and running the speed test from the forum. IF it states your maximum speeds as the same as what you entered, that part of the router is working. As for managing the queue, since you don't have access to the inner workings of the router either, you can just see if the quality of your phone connection holds while you download a large file via ftp or http.

hope that helps
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