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tplink Posted:
Im trying to add
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DWSupport Posted:
After recent
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peterlee Posted:
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rio
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TELLDOUG Posted:
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HildBeft Posted:
You can recollect
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and open the
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Great tips..
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massrman Posted:
The devices are
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margins , please
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On Sep 30, 2016 at 00:48:03

massrman Posted:
Hi these are most
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their
configuration
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Has anyone setup a
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James44 Posted:
Hi, I am
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Post new topic   Reply to topic  Vonage® VoIP Forum - Vonage News, Reviews And Discussion » Vonage Forum Archive
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Martlet
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Joined: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: 206
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ToddlerTN wrote:
Martlet wrote:
Perhaps I should have said "come back when you understand the topic", then. We've been discussing "A case for regulation", not "We're going to be regulated, deal with it".

Stating that we are going to be regulated, therefore it's the right thing to do is a logically fallible argument. Hence, it's illogical that you would fall to it when your on-topic case loses steam.

Alright, to recap:

- Someone starts a thread saying "here's the case for regulation"
- A bunch of guys start shouting "I don't want to pay any taxes, if you don't like it, go back to POTS"

Not the greatest comeback, really.

- Someone says "the government has an interest in protecting consumers' rights, e911, open standards, etc."
- A bunch of guys start shouting "I don't want to pay any taxes, if you don't like it, go back to POTS"

Thus the pattern begins.

- Someone says "it's bigger than consumers complaining, it's about establishing technical standards for Voip, access issues, Homeland Security, giving business a secure framework to build services on now and into the future"
- A bunch of guys start shouting "I don't want to pay any taxes, if you don't like it, go back to POTS"

So I point out that the entire industry already agrees that regulation is needed, to protect both consumers and providers. The FCC has already established jurisdiction, the state agencies are working with the federal government and even Congress is currently crafting legislation to codify this into law.

And now your response is that I've gone off-topic?

The entire industry already agrees that regulation is needed. Doesn't the fact that the entire industry disagrees with you make you at least consider that you just might be wrong after all?

Now of course you can be wrong and still present your case. But all I've heard is "I don't want to pay any taxes, if you don't like it, go back to POTS." Has anyone posted anything else to support the case against regulation? Give me some sources, some attribution. Is anyone in Congress working against regulating Voip? Are any of the FCC commissioners weighing in against regulation? Is anyone in the industry fighting regulation? Let us know what they've said, why they think it's a bad idea. My opinions are based on what's going on in the industry and what those who are involved are saying. If your opinions are based on anything more than "I don't want to pay any taxes" then please show me. Change my mind, I want to see that evidence.

I've given plenty of specific reasons why regulation is needed. I've provided the facts regarding what industry players and the government are already doing in terms of creating a framework of regulatory oversight. I've given quotes from Vonage CEO Jeffrey Citron acknowledging that regulation is needed and inevitable. I've shown that no one in the industry is even debating whether regulation is necessary. I've provided statements from FCC Chairman Powell and others who address Voip regulation not in terms or whether to do it but in terms of how it will be done.

If at this point you want to post some specific reasons why you're against regulation, go for it. Outside of this forum, you seem to be standing alone, but if anyone in the Voip industry has taken a stand against regulation in any form then please let me know.


Oversimplifying the discussion to belittle one side while bolster your own is a losers argument. There have been numerous reasons against regulation given. Your decision to pretend they don't exist in an attempt to cause your repeated cries of "it's going to happen" to appear more realistic only bolsters my position.

In a free market absent of a monopoly you've yet to provide a compelling argument beyond "I'm right, I know I am", "you're all whiners", "no one agrees with you" and the like.

Now you speak of this grandiose case you've presented yet it just doesn't exist. All that has come from you are straw men and insults. You've bored everyone debating you away.

I'm still waiting.
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Martlet
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Posts: 206
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SaltAquatics wrote:
Lol Some people just have a hard time dealing with reality. Reality is... that one way or another, Vonage and every other Voip provider will be regulated at one point or another. Details take time to work out. "Hang in there". You'll be regulated soon enough. Enjoy the non-regulation while you can. You see, its already in motion. You can voice your opinion all you want and your voice to those that are pushing for it. Thing is, like i was told before, if you don't like it, you can go elsewhere for service.


And if there is an alternative then, I will. Why pay the same for Voip as I pay for POTS?
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ToddlerTN
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Posts: 482
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Martlet wrote:
Why pay the same for Voip as I pay for POTS?

That's probably the perfect summary for the thread. It demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding with regards to the economics that make Voip so affordable, while also underscoring your short-sighted "anything to save a nickel" mentality.
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Martlet
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ToddlerTN wrote:
Martlet wrote:
Why pay the same for Voip as I pay for POTS?

That's probably the perfect summary for the thread. It demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding with regards to the economics that make Voip so affordable, while also underscoring your short-sighted "anything to save a nickel" mentality.


Ah yes. When you can't defend your argument, attack the debater. Actually, it sums up your "I need the government to babysit me because I can't make my own decisions" mentality. Partner that with the "I know more than you, but I won't share it " mentality and you've successfully created a non-argument.

Congratulations.

C'mon on back when you feel like bolstering your non position.
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DentalRep
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Joined: Feb 15, 2005
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Martlet wrote:

And if there is an alternative then, I will. Why pay the same for Voip as I pay for POTS?


I agree with this completely. Less government is always better. If a product doesn't meet your needs find one that does.

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SaltAquatics
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 126
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Martlet wrote:
ToddlerTN wrote:
Martlet wrote:
Why pay the same for Voip as I pay for POTS?

That's probably the perfect summary for the thread. It demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding with regards to the economics that make Voip so affordable, while also underscoring your short-sighted "anything to save a nickel" mentality.


Ah yes. When you can't defend your argument, attack the debater. Actually, it sums up your "I need the government to babysit me because I can't make my own decisions" mentality. Partner that with the "I know more than you, but I won't share it " mentality and you've successfully created a non-argument.

Congratulations.

C'mon on back when you feel like bolstering your non position.


Defend what argument? Did he not post something that was printed in November of last year? Is the info he provided false? Did the FCC not say all those things? Is the legislature really NOT looking into regulating Voip? What does he need to defend? Words that he did not say?

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Martlet
Vonage Forum Master
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Joined: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: 206
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SaltAquatics wrote:
Martlet wrote:
ToddlerTN wrote:
Martlet wrote:
Why pay the same for Voip as I pay for POTS?

That's probably the perfect summary for the thread. It demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding with regards to the economics that make Voip so affordable, while also underscoring your short-sighted "anything to save a nickel" mentality.


Ah yes. When you can't defend your argument, attack the debater. Actually, it sums up your "I need the government to babysit me because I can't make my own decisions" mentality. Partner that with the "I know more than you, but I won't share it " mentality and you've successfully created a non-argument.

Congratulations.

C'mon on back when you feel like bolstering your non position.


Defend what argument? Did he not post something that was printed in November of last year? Is the info he provided false? Did the FCC not say all those things? Is the legislature really NOT looking into regulating Voip? What does he need to defend? Words that he did not say?


You obviously don't even understand the discussion. Sorry.
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SaltAquatics
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 126
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Get over it already. Regulation will be here before you know it. Lol

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Javier
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SaltAquatics
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Posts: 126
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You are telling him to defend what he posted. His arguement for regulation. Are you not? If not then yes i am mistaken.

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Javier
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VitaminM
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Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

On a note that is ALSO unrelated to the topic of this discussion:
I like ramen noodles a lot.
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