Perhaps I should have said "come back when you understand the topic", then. We've been discussing "A case for regulation", not "We're going to be regulated, deal with it".
Stating that we are going to be regulated, therefore it's the right thing to do is a logically fallible argument. Hence, it's illogical that you would fall to it when your on-topic case loses steam.
Alright, to recap:
- Someone starts a thread saying "here's the case for regulation" - A bunch of guys start shouting "I don't want to pay any taxes, if you don't like it, go back to POTS"
Not the greatest comeback, really.
- Someone says "the government has an interest in protecting consumers' rights, e911, open standards, etc." - A bunch of guys start shouting "I don't want to pay any taxes, if you don't like it, go back to POTS"
Thus the pattern begins.
- Someone says "it's bigger than consumers complaining, it's about establishing technical standards for Voip, access issues, Homeland Security, giving business a secure framework to build services on now and into the future" - A bunch of guys start shouting "I don't want to pay any taxes, if you don't like it, go back to POTS"
So I point out that the entire industry already agrees that regulation is needed, to protect both consumers and providers. The FCC has already established jurisdiction, the state agencies are working with the federal government and even Congress is currently crafting legislation to codify this into law.
And now your response is that I've gone off-topic?
The entire industry already agrees that regulation is needed. Doesn't the fact that the entire industry disagrees with you make you at least consider that you just might be wrong after all?
Now of course you can be wrong and still present your case. But all I've heard is "I don't want to pay any taxes, if you don't like it, go back to POTS." Has anyone posted anything else to support the case against regulation? Give me some sources, some attribution. Is anyone in Congress working against regulating Voip? Are any of the FCC commissioners weighing in against regulation? Is anyone in the industry fighting regulation? Let us know what they've said, why they think it's a bad idea. My opinions are based on what's going on in the industry and what those who are involved are saying. If your opinions are based on anything more than "I don't want to pay any taxes" then please show me. Change my mind, I want to see that evidence.
I've given plenty of specific reasons why regulation is needed. I've provided the facts regarding what industry players and the government are already doing in terms of creating a framework of regulatory oversight. I've given quotes from Vonage CEO Jeffrey Citron acknowledging that regulation is needed and inevitable. I've shown that no one in the industry is even debating whether regulation is necessary. I've provided statements from FCC Chairman Powell and others who address Voip regulation not in terms or whether to do it but in terms of how it will be done.
If at this point you want to post some specific reasons why you're against regulation, go for it. Outside of this forum, you seem to be standing alone, but if anyone in the Voip industry has taken a stand against regulation in any form then please let me know.
Oversimplifying the discussion to belittle one side while bolster your own is a losers argument. There have been numerous reasons against regulation given. Your decision to pretend they don't exist in an attempt to cause your repeated cries of "it's going to happen" to appear more realistic only bolsters my position.
In a free market absent of a monopoly you've yet to provide a compelling argument beyond "I'm right, I know I am", "you're all whiners", "no one agrees with you" and the like.
Now you speak of this grandiose case you've presented yet it just doesn't exist. All that has come from you are straw men and insults. You've bored everyone debating you away.
Some people just have a hard time dealing with reality. Reality is... that one way or another, Vonage and every other Voip provider will be regulated at one point or another. Details take time to work out. "Hang in there". You'll be regulated soon enough. Enjoy the non-regulation while you can. You see, its already in motion. You can voice your opinion all you want and your voice to those that are pushing for it. Thing is, like i was told before, if you don't like it, you can go elsewhere for service.
And if there is an alternative then, I will. Why pay the same for Voip as I pay for POTS?
ToddlerTN Vonage Forum Evangelist
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 482
Location: Nashville, TN
That's probably the perfect summary for the thread. It demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding with regards to the economics that make Voip so affordable, while also underscoring your short-sighted "anything to save a nickel" mentality.
That's probably the perfect summary for the thread. It demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding with regards to the economics that make Voip so affordable, while also underscoring your short-sighted "anything to save a nickel" mentality.
Ah yes. When you can't defend your argument, attack the debater. Actually, it sums up your "I need the government to babysit me because I can't make my own decisions" mentality. Partner that with the "I know more than you, but I won't share it " mentality and you've successfully created a non-argument.
Congratulations.
C'mon on back when you feel like bolstering your non position.
That's probably the perfect summary for the thread. It demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding with regards to the economics that make Voip so affordable, while also underscoring your short-sighted "anything to save a nickel" mentality.
Ah yes. When you can't defend your argument, attack the debater. Actually, it sums up your "I need the government to babysit me because I can't make my own decisions" mentality. Partner that with the "I know more than you, but I won't share it " mentality and you've successfully created a non-argument.
Congratulations.
C'mon on back when you feel like bolstering your non position.
Defend what argument? Did he not post something that was printed in November of last year? Is the info he provided false? Did the FCC not say all those things? Is the legislature really NOT looking into regulating Voip? What does he need to defend? Words that he did not say?
That's probably the perfect summary for the thread. It demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding with regards to the economics that make Voip so affordable, while also underscoring your short-sighted "anything to save a nickel" mentality.
Ah yes. When you can't defend your argument, attack the debater. Actually, it sums up your "I need the government to babysit me because I can't make my own decisions" mentality. Partner that with the "I know more than you, but I won't share it " mentality and you've successfully created a non-argument.
Congratulations.
C'mon on back when you feel like bolstering your non position.
Defend what argument? Did he not post something that was printed in November of last year? Is the info he provided false? Did the FCC not say all those things? Is the legislature really NOT looking into regulating Voip? What does he need to defend? Words that he did not say?
You obviously don't even understand the discussion. Sorry.
SaltAquatics Vonage Forum Senior
Joined: Feb 18, 2005 Posts: 126
Location: Portland, OR
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Vonage Service Plans
Vonage VoIP Members
Members New Raniinody New Today 0 Yesterday 3 Total 64297 Who Is On Site Visitors 95 Members 0 Total 95
1Unlimited calling and other services for all residential plans are based on normal residential, personal, non-commercial use. A combination of factors is used to determine abnormal use, including but not limited to: the number of unique numbers called, calls forwarded, minutes used and other factors. Subject to our Reasonable Use Policy and Terms of Service.
2Shipping and activation fees waived with 1-year agreement. An Early Termination Fee (with periodic pro-rated reductions) applies if service is terminated before the end of the first 12 months. Additional restrictions may apply. See Terms of Service for details.
HIGH SPEED INTERNET REQUIRED. †VALID FOR NEW LINES ONLY. RATES EXCLUDE INTERNET SERVICE, SURCHARGES, FEES AND TAXES. DEVICE MAY BE REFURBISHED. If you subscribe to plans with monthly minutes allotments (for example, U.S. & Canada 300), all call minutes placed from both from your home and registered ExtensionsTM phones will count toward your monthly minutes allotment. ExtensionsTM calls made from mobiles use airtime and may incur surcharges, depending on your mobile plan. Alarms, TTY and other systems may not be compatible. Vonage 911 service operates differently than traditional 911. See www.vonage.com/911 for details.
Thinking of signing up for Vonage but have questions? Business and Residential customers can call Toll Free 24 hours a day at: 1-888-692-8074 No Vonage Promotional Codes or Coupon Codes are required at www.vonage.com.
The Vonage Forum provides the Vonage sign up Best Offer Promotion Deal as a means to offset
our cost. If you are considering signing up for Vonage and have found our Vonage
News, Customer Reviews, Forums & all other parts of this site useful, please
use our Vonage FREE Month sign up offer Deal Coupon.
Vonage VoIP Phone Service is redefining communications by offering consumers & small business VoIP Internet phones, an affordable alternative to traditional phone service.
The Vonage VoIP Forum Generated This Page In: 0.44 Seconds and 532 Pages In The Last 60 Seconds The Vonage VoIP Forum
Some people just have a hard time dealing with reality. Reality is... that one way or another, 
Members
New 
New Today 0
Yesterday 3
Total 64297
Who Is On Site
Visitors 95
Members 0
Total 95
0.00