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mmroberts
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

No, it is just that the instant someone talking about Voip sees Satellite, they just throw it out as a latency issue and the discussion stops.

I would almost agree with you on the packet explanation, except for the nagging problem of inbound calls working fine. Same equipment, same protocol, same link, same latency, same bandwidth. The incoming is crystal clear on both ends, but with an outbound call, my send (their receive) is all choppy. That cannot be attributed to equipment or latency, otherwise it would happen on both inbound and outbound calls.

The question now becomes: What is different between inbound and outbound calls? That is where the problem will be found.

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dfra
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:28 am    Post subject: voip over satellite Reply with quote Back to top

One possible reason for inbound calls to work when outbound ones don't is that most satellite internet providers routinely set up the system so that there is more bandwidth available for downloads than uploads, the assumption being that most users will be downloading far more and far more frequently than they are uploading. Speeds down are much faster than speeds up. Receiving signal also takes less power than sending, which could possibly be a factor. Possibilities.
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ve3sy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This is a quote from Directway's Web site
Quote:
The DIRECWAY Home service plan delivers download speeds up to 700 Kbps and upload speeds up to 128 Kbps


UP TO 128kbs means nominal with actual average speeds being far less. None of the Voip providers recommend any form of terrestial lite service that has dedicated non-bursty connections so I think it's safe to say any disruption to the packet flows will result in lost or bursty packet flow.

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mmroberts
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

OK. I realize that. But what I am saying is that IT WORKS FINE on inbound calls. So why does it only have problems with the outgoing voice on an outgoing call?

I know that a satellite connection is not ideal. If I had DSL or cable available, I wouldn't be using satellite, so ideal is not the goal. But even though it is not ideal, it works very well on inbound calls and it works very well on the receive side of outbound calls. The only problem is with outgoing voice on outbound calls.

My personal theory is that something at DirecWay is broken, but I don't know how to prove that.
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navydavy2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Check this out:

http://www.highspeedsat.com/dw6040.htm

Also, here's a list of providers that say they specialize in this. As I understand it, delay and jitter are the most common problems, but since it's inherent to the system, it takes a provider to come up with a good QOS strategy, I suppose:

There are a few providers that specialize in this market:

Ground Control Voip for Direcway or Galileo users

SatEuro.net Voip enabled satellite Internet services. Worldwide coverage

Skycasters Voip for Directway users

SDN GlobalSatellite Voip over dedicated international MPLS backbone with full QoS. Covers 85% of populated world.

Speedway Voip for iDirect and Linkstar users

Transcom ISP Voip for any high contention VSAT systems

BusinessCom Internet via Satellite Voip and VSAT services based on the LinkStar, iDirect and dedicated backbone channels with appropriate QoS setup. Service is offered on a unique iLBC codec which is used in Skype to achieve the best radio frequency media tolerance.

Personally, I think reliable Voip over Satty is possible, just takes the right solution for the right location/system.

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mmroberts
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the info. I guess from what I have read I am beating a dead horse on this one. I have gotten some additional information on the Broadband forums. Apparently DW introduced degradation in the outbound voice with a software fix that was implemented for some other problem. Since the Voip customers are probably a lot fewer than the customers who the fix helped, I doubt we will get any fix anytime soon.

That is a shame because I really , really would like it to work. I really like Vonage because I can plug standard handsets straight into the Vonage router and use them. Since the DirecWay modem has an ethernet port, I can run the phones completely independent of a computer, which means not having to reboot Windows every other day to keep it working. My plan was to hook up the Vonage router directly to the satellite modem and run it "hands off" so that it was no different that using standard Telco equipment from the user's standpoint.

This is really a disappointment because the setup I am working on was to be a pilot for a portable disaster relief communications center that I am working on. I am in south Mississippi and there are STILL areas where phone service is not available after Katrina.

The plan was to have a DirecWay system, generators, and Vonage routers in a trailer to provide on demand phone and internet services to disaster areas. This would allow us to roll in as soon as the storm was over and get a communications center up and running. This would allow people to email and/or call relatives and friends and let them know their status. It would also provide communications for governmental and relief workers to coordinate supply deliveries and such. That is one of the main reasons I wanted it to work with DirecWay...With the DW7000 I don't have to run any software on a PC to make Vonage work. Most other services require software on a Windows PC.

I am not giving up, but I don't know where else to go with this problem. I was told that a Canadian satellite provider works well with Vonage, but I have nearly $1000 sunk into a DirecWay system now.

Sigh....

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j-card
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Joined: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:52 am    Post subject: Ummm... Ok? Reply with quote Back to top

I would, for future reference, do your homework before doing a puchase on anything for a project like this! However, I have had to deal with the aftermath of Katrina, Rita, and any other natural disaster in the entire US. I would love to help you on this project, as I think this was one of the key issues not dealt by FEMA!

Let me know...

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navydavy2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If not a Vonage solution for your mobile effort, why not a true Voip solution? I assume you have a central NOC to coordiante communications, so why not dump in some sort of call manager/IP PBX tied to PSTN at the NOC, then put a Media Gateway in the trailer? It's not unlike a corporate network's Voip, just mobile over satty.

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mmroberts
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

No, I have no such luxuries.

I have two goals with my satellite system. The first is to get broadband at home. I do not have cable or DSL available, so satellite is my only option. I have been very pleased with DirecWay for broadband so far. I have also been impressed with the quality of Vonage over the system, except for the problem that I have been discussing. So I did not just jump into the DirecWay system without researching. I needed the broadband and it works very well for me.

The second goal is the disaster relief center. I work for a small engineering company that is big into Cisco IP Telephony equipment. We have been involved with Katrina recovery since immediately after the storm and have had many discussions about setting up the communications trailer. I saw the opportunity to prototype the setup using the satellite system that I already have and decided to give Vonage a shot. However, I am running up on the "money back guarantee" date and have still not been able to resolve this problem.

So if not Vonage, then someone. But I don't think that Vonage is the problem. I really think it is somewhere in the DirecWay NOC but I don't know how to test & prove that theory.

Thanks everyone for any help that you can and have offered. I will keep this thread updated as it progresses. Any additional suggestions are appreciated.

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navydavy2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe talking to the NOC management and explaining what you are doing, and if it works properly maybe they would get more customers, maybe even a GSA contract from FEMA?

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