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agreed dingy
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The devices are
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rebus
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

iskyfly wrote:
Having 911 service available to you isnt just for you.
It is for anyone that comes near your property. (guests, neighbors, delivery people, garbage collector, etc etc). You put people other than yourself at risk by not having 911 service.

When did it become MY responsibility to supply 911 service for the neighborhood and anyone passing by my home?

When was the Constitution amended to read "..endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and access to 911 service"?

When was the choice to purchase telephone service with the options of my own selection taken away from me, and replaced with a mandate to provide 911 service for the household?

I have a responsibility as a citizen to abide by the law of the land, and to conduct myself in a decent and moral fashion. I DO NOT have the responsibility to purchase 911 service "just in case someone else needs it" and I am under no obligation to do so.

Before I get too far up on my soapbox, you need to re-think your somewhat misguided assertion, "You put people other than yourself at risk by not having 911 service." My lack of 911 service does not PUT people at risk. The activity someone is performing, and the prevailing conditions surrounding them, are factors which determine risk. Having 911 service is merely a tool to RESPOND to an emergency if one of those risk factors causes life or property to become endangered.

 


Last edited by rebus on Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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reebok
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

race: ok, to you that is unnacceptable. but does the state police or 911 centers have caller id? they have ALI and ANI but that is apparently different from caller id, or else their non-emergency lines aren't equipped with either.

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ToddlerTN
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It really IS unacceptable that a child could dial 911 on a phone and not get help.

Yes, Vonage warns you, blah blah blah. Maybe it's her dad's fault, but that doesn't really matter. The fact is that a child, a babysitter, a grandparent...someone at some point may need 911, and that someone may have no way of knowing the house is using Voip. And even if that person actually gets connected to someone, they won't know they aren't calling traditional 911 (how would they know, they dialed 911 after all) and may not be prepared to say "this is an emergency" or "my name is so-and-so, this is the address"--or they may not even know the physical address, for that matter.

One thing I don't understand...Vonage knows your address already. You give it to them when you sign up for service. So why do they make you go through it again? Why don't they make the 911 signup just a part of the initial sign-up process? Put an extra screen in there and just give everyone 911 by default. That would ensure that anyone who does dial 911 on a Vonage phone would at least have a chance at getting help in a life-threatening situation.

Personally, I think it should not be an option. No, they shouldn't make you get a phone just to have 911...but if you buy a car, they make you wear a seat belt...and if you have a phone, they should make you carry 911.

As for the cost, what do you spend every month for entertainment? Maybe $60 for cable tv or satellite, $50 for broadband, a few trips out to eat or to the movies...and you are whining about pitching in maybe $2 for a federalized, state-of-the-art emergency response system? No one could seriously argue that the kind of person who has Voip and broadband can't afford $2 for 911. I agree, I don't want to get taxed to death, either, but that's not a tax, that's a service. I'd rather just pay for the service as a direct fee than have the government decide to tack on some special tax that goes to a general fund that then pays for 911 and who knows what else at their discretion. That's how all those taxes on your landline got started.

If the market had developed a Voip 911 solution, the government wouldn't need to get involved. But all the infighting and reluctance to cooperate among traditional carriers and Voip providers is what's driving this regulation, and given the track record so far, it seems hard to argue that FCC oversight and regulation isn't necessary in this case to get something done sooner rather than later.
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iskyfly
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ive snipped the theatrics from your response reebok. we can have a meaningful debate without it.

reebok wrote:

911 can be used for others, but my phone is not "for" them, and no one should expect anyone else to have it, or to be able to use it when they need it.


which is what 911 is meant for- to be able to used when needed by anyone. there are numerous scenarios where you could be incapacitated and somebody who is not aware that you do not have 911 tries to call using your phone. what happens? every second counts....
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iskyfly
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

rebus wrote:


"You put people other than yourself at risk by not having 911 service." My lack of 911 service does not PUT people at risk.  


sure it does. it puts people at risk by not getting appropriate timely response. (i do think you are nit picking)
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otaku
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

reebok wrote:
I'm surprised by this statement:
"It is simply unacceptable that a child can pick up a phone and dial 9-1-1 to get the police in an emergency and instead she gets a recording saying that 9-1-1 is not available."
no it isn't. if anything blame the user who signed up for Vonage and completely failed to communicate any type of instruction, not to mention completely missed the 911 setup as mention in another post. typical case of PBKAC and now oh heaven forbid we're all going to die because of this so let's get big brother involved. I'm also surprised by the amount of people dying to pay more on their bills. of course, it's all personal opinion and preference. hopefully the fcc will keep the heck out of it (too late) and Vonage will keep their current psap routing and offer pay e911 (a la packet Cool in their markets soon.


I totally agree. I think if E911 is going to be taxed then we should choose whether or not we want to use it. I am happy with the PSAP 911 I get now.

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rebus
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ToddlerTN wrote:
if you buy a car, they make you wear a seat belt...and if you have a phone, they should make you carry 911.

And who are "they" to require that? Should "they" also tell you it's unhealthy to drink whole milk, and force you to drink skim? Should "they" tell you too much TV is bad for you, and shut off your cable service after a certain number of viewing hours? Should "they" monitor your credit card usage and cut you off if "they" think you're spending too much this on clothes this month? Should "they" tell you small cars are not safe enough to carry small children, and require you to purchase something bigger, heavier and safer? Where does it end?

ToddlerTN wrote:
As for the cost, what do you spend every month for entertainment? Maybe $60 for cable tv or satellite, $50 for broadband, a few trips out to eat or to the movies... No one could seriously argue that the kind of person who has Voip and broadband can't afford $2 for 911.

This isn't about cost. This is about taking away one more right a person has to make THEIR OWN DECISIONS about what they do (or do not) purchase. Nobody has a gun to their head to purchase Voip. Do I need to say that louder, so you get it? Nobody has a gun to their head to purchase Voip. Anybody who signs up for Vonage does so after making the conscious decision NOT to purchase traditional phone service. They don't suddenly wake up one morning and discover an unscrupulous telemarketer secretly converted ("slammed") their phone service to Voip without their knowledge.

Anyone buying Vonage knows there are risks. They know it relies on their internet connnection. They know it is not a direct replacement for POTS service. They know that 911 service works differently, and that it MUST be activated before use, because Vonage makes that VERY clear from Day One. They choose Vonage because they're getting lots of features and free long distance, dirt cheap.

The person who would stand up and claim they "didn't know" you had to activate 911 service with Vonage is the same person who would swear they "didn't know" they had to actually wear their seat belt to be protected.

I'm sick and tired of the government telling me how to run my own life, and I'm sick and tired of people like you trying to force things down my throat just because YOU have decided the cost is "worth it" (and so therefore must be required of all people) or because the cost is "less than" some other product like satellite TV or going out to dinner once a month. To you, 911 is worth $2. It may even be worth $5 or $10. That's great, but don't force ME to share your view, and don't jam your hand into MY wallet to extract money for something YOU deem a necessity.

That's all I'm going to say about it.... (and will sit back and hope this somewhat hostile post doesn't get selectively moderated).

 


Last edited by rebus on Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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iskyfly
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

rebus wrote:


I'm sick and tired of the government telling me how to run my own life,

well then, it becomes quite clear as to the root of your problem.

Quote:
That's all I'm going to say about it.... (and will sit back and hope this somewhat hostile post doesn't get selectively moderated).

you know your post is hostile yet you still post it. sigh...
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reebok
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

iskyfly wrote:
rebus wrote:


I'm sick and tired of the government telling me how to run my own life,

well then, it becomes quite clear as to the root of your problem.



haha, yeah really rebus, submit your all to the government like the rest of us drones. accept our brave new world and come to the realization that 1984 is the blessing this country needs.
that's what everyone said in the late 1700's right? accept the tea tax, the stamp tax, and everything else for that matter...that's why we have such a great country today.

wait, 911, we were talking about 911? whoops.

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rebus
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

iskyfly wrote:
rebus wrote:

I'm sick and tired of the government telling me how to run my own life,

well then, it becomes quite clear as to the root of your problem.

I wasn't aware that freedom of choice was a "problem". You do realize that the people with your attitude were the ones who stayed back in England, don't you? Those who got on the boat were the ones who embraced independent thought, freedom of choice, and most importantly, accepted responsibility (and the consequences) for their actions.

 
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