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mrkleen
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

READ SLOWER REBUS

AS I have stated, I Understand that the address info is not transmitted, I understand that it works differently than POTS.

My complaint is that they offer this service but the call may not get answered, what is the point? It would be a waste of valuable time during an emergency to get NO ANSWER to then have to turn to an alternate method. I do not plan on using this system until it is in a reliable form.

They do not say anywhere except the TOS that it may only be available during business hours. If you can find that info somewhere else I will gladly concede this part of the argument

I SIMPLY WANTED TO KNOW IF ANYONE ELSE GOT THE SAME ANSWER AS I DID WHEN THEY TESTED THEIR 911.

Apparently rebus, you did not get the same response I did, Im glad yours is manned 24/7/365, mine is NOT.
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ToddlerTN
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

A lot of people have had that experience, signing up for Vonage's 911 and then finding out that Vonage routes them to a non-emergency line or even the wrong number altogether. Search the threads, there are plenty of examples.

Did you hear of the recent case in Houston? Two armed robbers broke into a home and shot the parents of a 17-year-old girl. As she desperately tried to call 911, she repeatedly got a message telling her that she needed to dial 911 from another telephone. So she did...and got the same message on that phone, too. Turns out her family had signed up for Vonage service and did not understand they had to take special steps to sign up for 911. (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2005-02-28-voip-usat_x.htm)

Definitely do your research. Vonage isn't going to make sure you're informed, that's your job--although they do make you dig deep to find the details. I thought I had researched the issue about as much as I could before I signed up (I scoured the Vonage site, these forums and Google, and even spoke to two Vonage CSRs and a supervisor), and finally just out of frustration over the lack of detailed information, I decided the only way to know for sure how it would work for me was to get Vonage and test it for myself. And I believe you're right, I only found that warning about "911 may not be answered outside of business hours" in the TOS when I signed up for Voange 911--which you can only read after you've already signed a contract for service with Vonage.

Of course you are absolutely correct in pointing out how some of these people act as if their complaints or concerns are the only legitimate ones. Rebus, for example, posted a hearty "WOOHOO!" after asking his state's regulatory authority to get involved in his LNP transfer issues. When their involvement finally made it happen, he was quick to sing the praises of regulation when it was his particular need that got met. But had his LNP gone flawlessly and it been someone else's problem, you'd have heard him telling them "no one has a gun to your head" and "put the box back on the shelf and walk away."

Don't worry about it. There are a handful of people who are extremely vocal about not caring about 911, and therefore anyone else who does care about that particular issue is simply wrong. But those same people will **** about Click-2-Call not working, or demand a list of compatible USB handsets, or repeatedly ask why Vonage doesn't offer call filtering yet, or moan about having to pay extra for SoftPhone, or complain that Vonage should work with any SIP device, or go on and on about how they want this particular adapter instead of the one that Vonage provides because it's too bulky to take on the road...you get the picture.

Despite the impression they cast here, all of them have their own personal issues and feature wish-lists they hope Vonage will provide someday. But they're allowed to voice their complaints, and you're not? Of course you are. Keep letting Vonage what you want. Businesses respond to customers, or else they die, and if consumers want 911, then it will happen--regardless of what rebus, DentalRep, otaku, Martlet or anyone else has to say about it. Who knows, they may even decide e911 is worth having, once it's available. Now wouldn't that be ironic?[/b]


Last edited by ToddlerTN on Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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eliotj
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Joined: Feb 01, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Martlet wrote:
I disagree. It's just one more thing for the government to meddle with. I didn't even have a home phone until I got Voip. Should they force me to in case I needed to dial 911?

Let it be my decision.


I agree with you 100%.

the problem isn't WHAT we're supposed to be paying for, it's what we are ACTUALLY paying for. The funds given for specified purposes seldom go to that purpose.
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otaku
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ToddlerTN wrote:
Despite the impression they cast here, all of them have their own personal issues and feature wish-lists they hope Vonage will provide someday. But they're allowed to voice their complaints, and you're not? Of course you are. Keep letting Vonage what you want. Businesses respond to customers, or else they die, and if consumers want 911, then it will happen--regardless of what rebus, DentalRep, otaku, Martlet or anyone else has to say about it. Who knows, they may even decide e911 is worth having, once it's available. Now wouldn't that be ironic?[/b]


Agreed. E911 is an eventuality. If Vonage gave me the option of whether or not to pay for E911 as an extra feature, I, personally, would turn it down Smile

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ToddlerTN
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

eliotj wrote:
Martlet wrote:
I disagree. It's just one more thing for the government to meddle with. I didn't even have a home phone until I got Voip. Should they force me to in case I needed to dial 911?

Let it be my decision.


I agree with you 100%.

the problem isn't WHAT we're supposed to be paying for, it's what we are ACTUALLY paying for. The funds given for specified purposes seldom go to that purpose.

It happens every day. Roads, libraries, sewers--the military--we're all paying for things that benefit society at large, and it's always been that way. America has had a public school system for 200 years, not because it's a constitutional right, but because it's in the interest of "promoting the general welfare" for you fans of the Constitution. We all paid for your childhood education, now you get to pay for someone else's. I can't imagine too many people think that's not a fair deal.

In fact, take that example...we're all paying for public schools through our tax dollars. And some people feel the need to send their kids to private schools because the public schools are such a mess. I'd be interested to know, you guys who are so upset about the idea of paying $2 for 911, would you support school vouchers so that all children can to attend the school of their choice? Or is "choice" to you just about your money and saving $2 a month?
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rebus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

mrkleen wrote:
They do not say anywhere except the TOS that it may only be available during business hours.

Here's a novel idea: READ THE TOS before you commit to a purchase. They are links to the TOS on virtually every page of the Vonage website where services and packages are advertised.


Last edited by rebus on Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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otaku
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
In fact, take that example...we're all paying for public schools through our tax dollars. And some people feel the need to send their kids to private schools because the public schools are such a mess. I'd be interested to know, you guys who are so upset about the idea of paying $2 for 911, would you support school vouchers so that all children can to attend the school of their choice? Or is "choice" to you just about your money and saving $2 a month?


Seems an apples and orange comparison, but...

Yes. I think school vouchers are a good idea.

Yes. I think I should have the option to opt out of 911 service on Voip if it is going to cost me money.

I'm a bit lost as to what this proves?

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ToddlerTN
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

otaku wrote:
Agreed. E911 is an eventuality. If Vonage gave me the option of whether or not to pay for E911 as an extra feature, I, personally, would turn it down Smile

If they give you that choice, then by all means, do as you wish. But there is a case to be made for universal 911. Just like parents don't have a choice about sending their kids to school or taking them to the doctor or using a car seat. A case can be made that, at least for parents of children, choosing not to have 911 demonstrates a reckless, wanton disregard for their family's safety, and the government has an interest in protecting children who can't protect themselves.

Imagine if having 911 ceased to be the norm...I bet you'd see homeowners insurance premiums climb due to the increased risks, which would screw all of us. And mortgage companies might start requiring you to carry 911, just like they require you to carry homeowners insurance before they will lend you money. Even your health insurance or life insurance providers could probably require that you carry 911, when you consider that seconds count, and those seconds affect their bottom line. It's not that far-fetched...they certainly are allowed to place restrictions on you when you apply for coverage. So maybe you save $2 now, but you end up paying a lot more overall when everything is said and done.

But I suspect that won't happen anyway, because you'll all have e911 when it's available. Once they develop the system that rebus describes, these other PSAP numbers will go away, and you won't have any other option for emergency services besides screaming over the fence for help. Just food for thought.
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ToddlerTN
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

otaku wrote:
Quote:
In fact, take that example...we're all paying for public schools through our tax dollars. And some people feel the need to send their kids to private schools because the public schools are such a mess. I'd be interested to know, you guys who are so upset about the idea of paying $2 for 911, would you support school vouchers so that all children can to attend the school of their choice? Or is "choice" to you just about your money and saving $2 a month?


Seems an apples and orange comparison, but...

Yes. I think school vouchers are a good idea.

Yes. I think I should have the option to opt out of 911 service on Voip if it is going to cost me money.

I'm a bit lost as to what this proves?

Proves that you guys don't question contributing to a system which provides a benefit for society at large when it comes to spending $10,000 per kid in public schools, but just the thought of being forced to participate in a subsidized 911 system that might cost you $2, you completely freak out.
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rebus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ToddlerTN wrote:
A lot of people have had that experience, signing up for Vonage's 911 and then finding out that Vonage routes them to a non-emergency line or even the wrong number altogether. Search the threads, there are plenty of examples.

Yeah. Those are the people who failed to read the Terms of Service.

ToddlerTN wrote:
Definitely do your research. Vonage isn't going to make sure you're informed, that's your job--although they do make you dig deep to find the details.

Oh my God, you're kidding, right? Even my 5 year old could find that information. Go to the Search box and type in '911'. Here are two that leap off the page.

http://www.vonage.com/help_knowledgeBase_article.php?article=394&category=0

Another difference between Vonage 911 Dialing service and traditional 911 service is that the Vonage call will be routed to the PSAP's general access line, which is different from the 911 Emergency Response Center. You will need to state the nature of your emergency promptly and clearly, including your location and telephone number, as PSAP personnel will not have this information at hand.

http://www.vonage.com/help_knowledgeBase_article.php?article=113&category=0

Vonage’s PSAPs do not currently have Data Management System/Automatic Location Identification (DMS/ALI) systems, which would enable the operator to automatically know the location of the caller.

ToddlerTN wrote:
I only found that warning about "911 may not be answered outside of business hours" in the TOS when I signed up for Voange 911--which you can only read after you've already signed a contract for service with Vonage.

Everyone gets a 14 day free trial. Confucius say, man who not like service get refund. Then, everyone happy. Oh, by the way, there are links to the Terms of Service on virtually every page of the Vonage website where their service packages are described. So the fact is, you are always ONE CLICK away from the very 911 information you say is buried.

ToddlerTN wrote:
Rebus, for example, posted a hearty "WOOHOO!" after asking his state's regulatory authority to get involved in his LNP transfer issues. When their involvement finally made it happen, he was quick to sing the praises of regulation when it was his particular need that got met.

You do like to make assumptions and put words in other people's mouths, don't you? Read my post again. The WooHoo was over the fact it had been completed after more than 3 months of waiting. Using the regulatory agency my hard-earned dollars pay for (taken out of my paycheck, and out of my phone bill, against my will) was... pay attention now... my only recourse, short of hiring an attorney.

Here's another news flash for you, ToddlerTN. I have made the conscious decision-- free will-- my own choice-- to LEAVE the regulated carrier IN FAVOR OF an UNregulated one. If regulation was so important to me, I would still be with Verizon. But it's not. My one and only phone service is Vonage. No POTS. No cell phone. Not even smoke signals in the back yard. Just me, my internet connection, and a Vonage phone adapter. And if service goes to hell in a handbasket, or power goes out, or my ISP has packet loss problems making phone service useless for days at a time, I'm willing to accept the consequences. I'm not going to run home crying to Mommy, I'm not going to be outside stomping my feet, and I sure as hell am NOT going to write a letter to my Congressman begging for Voip industry regulation.

So relax, go take another hit on your bong, and leave me out of your delusions that I somehow favor regulations when they suit me.
 


Last edited by rebus on Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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