Yesterday the FCC Commissioner said this...

Posts: 482 · Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:00 pm Post subject:

rebus wrote:

So the easy answer is, whenever you activate 911, test it. Not next week, not next month, not when Uncle Fred collapses from a heart attack, but as soon as you get the email from Vonage saying it's active.

Which, as I've already stated, is precisely what I did. But you keep shifting your arguments. One moment you say "read the forums, read the Vonage TOS and everything you need to know is there...if you have concerns then put the box back on the shelf" and then the next post you turn around and concede that the only way to reasonably know how 911 will really work for you is to get Vonage, activate the 911 service and then test it. That's all I've told people. I've repeatedly said that the way 911 on Vonage works is not Vonage's fault, nor is it their fault if you don't understand the limitations. To quote, I said "Vonage isn't going to make sure you're informed, that's your job." The way you keep deliberately overlooking that is really frustrating.

rebus wrote:

ToddlerTN wrote:

No, you had other options, including the ones you left behind. You could have used your new phone number, or you could have gone back to your landline carrier and "put the box back on the shelf" right?

Ummmm..... you're overlooking one key issue. Laws already on the books say I have the right to take my number with me. I exercised that right, using specific channels established by law, for the explicit purpose of utility disputes, to force the carrier to do what it was legally obligated to do.

And why do you think those LNP laws are on the books? Because the FCC took a look at the issue and decided to create a national LNP standard. Which is all I'm asking for with E911. And I know it will happen eventually. But anyone here who says they support the FCC getting involved gets a swift boldface response from you asking "was someone holding a gun to your head when you signed up for Vonage?" So what is your point...once you sign up for Vonage, you have no standing to make suggestions or seek improvements, so quit trying to make things better? I would actually argue that Voip customers probably have more standing to seek improvements than someone who hasn't used Voip at all.

Your "either you're completely satisfied with Vonage, or put the box back on the shelf" mentality ignores a reasonable middle ground. It's perfectly legitimate for people like me to use Voip as it exists today, and yet also seek to make it even better in the future.

rebus wrote:

I understand your desire to have such 911 regulation, but unlike number portability, there is no 911 law in place to address this specific issue. Therefore, please stop complaining that Voip does not offer (what you consider to be) an adequate 911 facility.

If you don't like the game, don't play.

That's a clever rewording of my issue. I've never complained that Voip doesn't offer adequate 911. I've complained that the local telcos which control access to the current 911 system have refused to cooperate with Voip providers in opening access to 911 services, and I've written the FCC asking them to take a look at the issue. And I believe my position has been openly echoed by several members of Congress and at least one commissioner of the FCC.

"The game" can be played even if the technology isn't perfect yet (which you would have to agree, it isn't). But that doesn't mean consumers don't have recourse to seek improvements, especially when it comes to something so important as emergency response services. In fact, a part of "playing the game" as I see it is working to make things better.

Posts: 70 · Full Forum Member Joined: Jun 17, 2004 Posts: 70

ToddlerTN wrote:

"The game" can be played even if the technology isn't perfect yet (which you would have to agree, it isn't). But that doesn't mean consumers don't have recourse to seek improvements, especially when it comes to something so important as emergency response services. In fact, a part of "playing the game" as I see it is working to make things better.

It might be better for you to talk to the people who actually have control over the issue though, rather than going on & on about it to the user base on some 3rd party website. Like we have any control over the situation at all. But I could be way off base. You seem to know a lot about this situation so maybe b!tch!ng at the choir is the way to play the game.

Posts: 482 · Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject:

Oh I'd hardly call rebus the choir...we're not singing the same tune.

I don't see what's wrong with both being a Vonage customer and hoping the FCC will help establish a national 911 system that all providers have access to, yet I keep getting bashed for it. "Did someone hold a gun to your head when you signed up for Vonage?" That seems to be rebus' standard: you may only seek improvements if someone held a gun to your head when you signed up.

As for going on & on...well, I'm not alone here. I assume anyone who isn't interested will stop reading and responding.

I'm not posting here with any illusions that it will bring about some kind of change. That's why I've written the FCC. I'm just debating the issue like everyone else...it's just a discussion, that's all.

Posts: 23 · Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject:

Personally, the fact that E911 is being tested in one state, tells me that Vonage has stepped up to do the right thing for their customers well being and also so that they can truly be a standard telephone system replacement. The current system (911) in my area just happens to be unsatisfactory. Everything else so far seems very good.

Posts: 482 · Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject:

mrkleen,

You're right, the technical element of providing 911 service is not the hardest part. What you may not know is that Vonage piloted e911 in Rhode Island because the 911 system in Rhode Island is regulated by the state, and thus the state was willing to work with Vonage. In almost every other state, the 911 system is controlled by the regulated local telephone companies (the "Baby Bells") and the law currently states that they do not have to allow unregulated providers to access the 911 system. They have to sell access to regulated providers, but not to Vonage.

I've read that the way Packet8 is working around the Baby Bells' stonewalling is by working through alternative local providers who under the law do have access to the 911 systems and are willing to act as middlemen by reselling their access on to Packet8. That's why their local 911 services are available on an ad hoc basis in various areas all over the country.

It doesn't matter how willing Vonage is to "step up" when they are being locked out of the system by the very companies whose existence is being challenged by Voip, and those companies are not excited about selling Vonage the rope for their own nooses. That's why the FCC needs to get involved in modifying the law so that the emergency response system is open to everyone.

Posts: 336 · Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:22 am Post subject:

At this time, Vonage does not offer 911 service at all in Canada. This is a bit scary, because people are gambling that they will not need it. However, the case in Texas is a good indication that emergency number dialing is important. I think 911 should work, regardless of whether or not they know for sure where you are. At least if you got someone on the other end of the line, they could ask you where you are, just like they used to 10 years ago prior to 911. If they can tell that your call is coming in through Voip, they might see your address, but it should be verified anyway.

I have a cell phone, and that gives me some peace of mind. However, my cell phone is usually in my coat pocket on my main floor. If I'm in bed and something happens, I cannot dial 911 from my bedroom. It concerns me, but I did paste the local 7-digit numbers to the police, fire and ambulance on all of my phones. Until 911 starts working in Canada (which Vonage says will be soon), I will have to rely on these 7-digit local area numbers.

People who do not have 911, should first of all be finding out what the local calling number is for these emergency numbers and posting those numbers on the phone or on a piece of paper next to the phone. We live in a world where nothing is guaranteed - anything can happen, and it would be nice if we were all somewhat prepared as best as we could be.

Posts: 2 · New Forum Member Joined: Mar 21, 2005 Posts: 2

I hear that the AOL Voip service will be totaly compliant to Telco requirements so they are going to have full E-911. For now Vonage only has E-911 in Rhode Island. AOL is going to be a 500lb gorilla when it becomes available.

-Fred

[quote="Trek234"]Maybe we'll get 911 by law soon....

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-257040A1.doc

"Fourth, we have a real challenge with Voip. A recent tragedy in Texas reminds us all that the stakes are very high. Press reports indicate that a family in Houston was attacked by a burglar last month. The father and mother were shot. While the attacker was still in the house, their daughter tried to dial 9-1-1 on their Voip line and a recording informed her that 9-1-1 was not available. We are still gathering information on exactly what happened and on the circumstances of 9-1-1's unavailability. Let me be the first to say that I do not have a ready answer for the Voip 911 question. Certainly we need to understand that Voip doesn’t use the same technology as the circuit-switched network and this should be reflected in our rules. And we need to figure out when one player offers an application and another is a service provider. But let me also say this. This problem has to be fixed. And it has to be fixed soon. It is simply unacceptable that a child can pick up a phone and dial 9-1-1 to get the police in an emergency and instead she gets a recording saying that 9-1-1 is not available. A 9-1-1 call can be the single most important call that child, or any of us, ever makes. So it is our solemn and pressing obligation to make sure that it is available and that it works. I know you are working on this, and I want to commend NENA and the VON Coalition for the serious effort they are making to get us what the country needs. It is a partnership that can make a real difference. Keep up the good work; keep us posted; and let me know, please, how you think I can help the effort."[/quote]

Posts: 336 · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject:

In the meantime, it is probably an excellent idea to find all of the local emergency numbers and jot them down on a sticky which can be placed onto every phone in the home.

This is what I did at my house. All of my phones have the numbers to the police, fire department and ambulance. In fact, without having to go through the 911 dispatcher, I will be in contact with the emergency personnel likely quicker. How much time does it take to call an extra 7 digits on a touch tone phone? Not much more time, and then you are connected directly to the emergency service that you really need.

The benefit of 911 is that it is easy to remember, and very easy for children to remember and dial.