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mikebrown Posted:
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On Apr 27, 2017 at 18:52:02

Trafford Posted:
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On Apr 27, 2017 at 10:42:50

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On Feb 16, 2017 at 03:16:51

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ToddlerTN
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

mrkleen wrote:
What I do not understand about your argument, which I have seen a few times, is why do the same 911 issues apply to the Voip solutions from Verizon (Voicewing) and Att (callvantage) these regulated carriers?

https://www22.verizon.com/CustomerHelp/CGI-BIN/SmartHelp.asp
http://www.usa.att.com/callvantage/faqs/about_911.jsp

This kind of kills that argument.

I'll hit the highlights, but I'll link to the full story at the end.

New Telephony: "Vonage Works with Rhode Island for Full E-911"

Working for the first time cooperatively with a state government, consumer voice-over-IP provider Vonage and technology provider Intrado Inc. have tested a system with the State of Rhode Island for full connection between voice-over-IP services and E-911 emergency systems that link to public-safety access points (PSAPs).

The test further highlighted issues in the E-911 system, such as a lack of national policy vis a vis voice over IP, that can prevent effective communication to PSAPs or even deny access to third-party service providers not involved in the current 911 system.

The test was made possible by the State of Rhode Island's affirmative response to an invitation by Vonage to conduct such as test. Vonage had approached several state governments to try to set up a test.

Also Rhode Island is one of the few states where E-911 is administered by the state at the state level. In other localities E-911 may be implemented at the municipal or county level and may be operated by the incumbent carrier.

Another system needing change, says Vonage CEO Jeffrey Citron, is how 911 is administered across the country."When it comes down to delivering the technology there are obstacles," he says. Today states have different procedures and rules in how they answer calls and what they do with them. In addition, states have different rules for access to the elements of the system.

"So we are in a quandary," says Citron. "Unless a state steps up to the plate and grants us access, it is difficult to get the calls there [to a PSAP]. We think for the good of the public 911 should be opened to nontelecom providers, like ISPs and third-party technology providers, etc., all companies that can take advantage of the technology to allow for services that never thought of."

He adds, "To do this we need a national plan. We can't do it state by state or county by county." The FCC has a current proceeding dealing with IP and 911 questions and may set a national policy.

http://www.newtelephony.com/news/CC478B1A-637B-4141-A24D-40C200E8FB0C.html?wts=20050305114737&hc=211&req=vonage+and+911

That's why I believe it will be a long time before we see Vonage rolling out e911 in most of the country. The obstacles now aren't technical, because they solved those for the most part in Rhode Island. The obstacles now as Citron stated are political, and the phone companies aren't going to give up their control without a fight.


Last edited by ToddlerTN on Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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ToddlerTN
Vonage Forum Evangelist
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

As for why AT&T or Verizon don't offer e911 yet, I can only speculate that they are currently implementing the infrastructure changes necessary to begin offering that service. But as regulated carriers, they do have access to the 911 system. Comcast has already said their system will offer e911 to all customers off the bat, as has Charter:

Excerpt from New Telephony, "Charter Launches Cable Voip" dated 09/07/2004:

Charter Communications Inc., the third largest cable operator in the United States with 6.6 million subscribers, has launched formally voice-over-IP services and plans to extend them to all of its serving areas.

The company will offer a primary-line service that includes operator and directory services, as well as support for 911 and CALEA (Communication Assistance to Law Enforcement Agencies). Actual service packages and prices will vary considerably by geography and are planned to be 10 percent to 20 percent less than the pricing of the local-exchange carrier.

Voip with a Telco Attitude
Charter's approach to voice over IP stresses "toll" quality and traditional services. Barber says the company will not offer what he terms a "nonregulated" service, such as Vonage or Net2Phone do. In developing its primary-line service, Barber says, Charter was mindful of the state regulations that it has been operating under as a provider of TDM voice and will deploy a service that will meet those regulations in each state where it operates.

Charter's service is delivered over "an owned and managed private plant," he says, "so we can maintain quality of service end to end on the phone call. All we are doing with IP is using IP for a transport mechanism in the plant." Where Charter does not have a service area with its own network, it does not use the Internet for long distance delivery. It instead hands off the traffic to a long distance carrier for delivery as TDM voice, thus giving up the cost savings of IP delivery of long distance.

It appears that Charter has adopted this strategy, not just for better voice quality, but also as a stake in the ground that to show that it is delivering a phone service with the legitimacy of traditional telephony. Charter, like most cable operators, is subject to extensive state regulation and must keep its slate clean with those governmental bodies.

"Vonage has nothing to lose," says Barber. "I have a whole set of other businesses that require state certification. If I do something that states disagree with, they can yank that certification and threaten the business." Although indications are that the FCC may be moving to deregulate voice significantly and bar certain kinds of state regulation, "I can't just say that I think regulation is going this way," he concludes.

http://www.newtelephony.com/news/B5BEEB54-5D79-4588-8784-96924AB7B577.html?wts=20050306120925&hc=106&req=911

Other providers are doing it, so if you want to know why AT&T or Verizon aren't, give them a call.
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iskyfly
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Joined: Feb 21, 2005
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

sajer wrote:

I don't know whether or not Vonage uses Intrado.

they do.
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mtcook01
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Joined: Mar 20, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I may be wrong but it is my understanding that 911 system is not owned by any public or private company. It is soley operated by either state or municipal governments. Todller you appear to be quite versed in this field so please correct me if I am wrong.

The incumbent carrier and any carrier that leases their access lines have to pay fees to the local 911 entities. I manage the computer systems and networks for Sumner County TN, E911 and the EMS agency. The 911 director and I have been running test on my Vonage home phone to ensure the accuracy of call forwarded. To my surprise every call has been answered in 2-3 rings, even though it is picked up on the non-emergency Administration Lines. These lines are still recorded and usually ( depending on the size of the county) answered by the same dispatcher that take the 911 calls

We also use the Intrado System to query address and route calls to our PSAPS. This is how is works. The 911 office is responsible for maintaining the MSAGS and ESN numbers for every address in their area. They issue the actual address numbers and OK the street names. That information is then put into the intrado system. Only then can a customer request a phone number from any carrier. When a bellsouth customer (incumbent carrier) calls 911 their system queries the intrado system for the proper routing. Bellsouth does not own, or run the 911 system, they merely access the county records through intrado.

Voange is doing everything right as a carrier. They have become members of NENA and appear to be very active in the 911 community. The biggest hurdle in the way of Vonage is the fact that they do not contribute or collect the 911 fees. In my county I believe its about 75 cents a month. That money goes to pay for dispatchers, 911 employees and structural upgrades such as CAD systems. Personally I have no problems paying this fee, nor should anyone else. Just don't screw me with a 100 other fees like the "bells" do. Example, it cost Bellsouth money to install the circuits for a "rotary only" phone, but they continue to charge for the "privilege" of touch tone... Ridiculous

I hear this E911 argument all the time, but what most people don't understand is phase 2 compliant locations rarely get a callers location from cellular services either. We test Sprint, Nextel and Vorizen all the time and they rarely give any more information than the tower location. Customers cut their landlines thinking their Cellular phone with GPS is just the same, but it is clearly not.

I know what the sales person will tell you, but we test. Nextel says it works great if you are outside, but they wont admit that their customers. Fine, I will ask my attacker politely to cut my throat outside so my GPS signal will be communicated as it should. In my opinion they are worse than Vonage. At least Vonage will talk about their short-comings

To sum it all up. This technology will come. I was a paramedic for 13 years and it amazes me that people will worry to death about E911 or phase 2 compliant but wont legibly display their house number. More people have risked serious injury not because of technology, but simply because we cant find the house... Sorry off my soapbox. By the way I love my new Vonage phone.
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Scoobedoo
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

After reading this thread I decided just to reach over to my phone and dial 911 to test it.

I got a busy signal.

Rolling Eyes
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otaku
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Joined: Feb 02, 2005
Posts: 318
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Did you set up your 911 service on the Dashboard?

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Scoobedoo
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, it was set up months ago, it still gives me the reminders in dashboard that it needs to be done, which is rather redundant, but I will phone tech support (sigh) and see if its truly in place.

Tks.
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Michael545
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Joined: Mar 14, 2005
Posts: 47
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I just tested my 911 service. 10 rings, no answer, and then a fast busy. And yes, it IS activated with Vonage.

Sad Sad
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Scoobedoo
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I guess all that all reading this post who have set up 911 service should just pick up the phone and test it now...

As a single father of two teens, i would really like to tell them in case of emergency, who, or what to really depend upon.
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jadinsf
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Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This was one of the reasons that I decided not to totally get rid of SBC all together when I got my Vonage line, the other was the LNP horror stores that I have read. I also decided to keep SBC for my alarm connection as I am not 100% convinced that my alarm will always be able to make it to the monitoring center on a Voip line.

I took my SBC POTS line down to basic calling for 10.00 per month and I just forward all incoming calls from POTS to my Vonage number and use Vonage for my outgoing calls.

I do have 911 service activated on my Vonage line but it is nice to know that in an emergency all I have to do is call 911 on the SBC line knowing that it will get routed to the E-911 queue. I live in Oakland CA and it does make a difference when calling in an emergency espeically on a Friday or Saturday night. I have the Panasonic 2-line cordless phones so it's very easy to select the Voip line or the SBC line.

I do love all of the extra features I get with Vonage like simul ring, voicemail messages delivered to my Treo via email etc. I am probably not saving any money with SBC minimal+Vonage but it seems that I get the best that both worlds have to offer for what I was paying SBC for prior to Vonage.

My experience with Vonage for the last 3 months that I have had the service has been fastastic. There have only been a few little minor glitches here and there. When I take into consideration that the calls have to traverse via the internet through multiple routers etc. it seems that Vonage is doing a rather stellar job at providing their service.

For my business I will be using a balanced mix of POTS/VOIP so that if there is a maltuntion on either service I have at least basic functionality. My inbound lines will be POTS so if there is a Voip malfunction my customers can still get through to me. I will stil save alot of money on outgoing calls even when paying more for the Vonage business service lines.
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