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tv
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Joined: Jan 24, 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:24 pm    Post subject: Comcast New User Agreement Reply with quote Back to top

Hey Guys/All - I have recently spent two month with Vonage and Comcast trying to resolve my Voip issues - And when everything was said and done it was an ISP issue "not sure what - I have other post on the topic" - Anyways Comcast did resolve the mystery problem however I have received a new updated user agreement along with the first bill after they did what ever it was to fix my unusable Vonage.

Have any of your guys with Comcast received an updated user agreement laying out specific Voip disclaimers ect, comcast installed hardware, ect.

In my last communication with Comcast executive department, I was advised it was my router but they had completed updates - No specific information on what updates and no other mention "Glad I was listening" but really they were in a state of denial after addressing my QoS problems.
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csnet
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Joined: Sep 17, 2005
Posts: 86
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, I got a new Comcast user agreement last week as well. I have had Vonage since 2005 and the last time I needed Comcast service in November for a general connection issue, Vonage was not discussed. My guess is that all Comcast customers have or will get that new agreement.

My take on the agreement is that Comcast is making it clearer what I had always understood to be the case, that they are not responsible for issues we might have with non-Comcast hardware/software and that they reserve the rights to their hardware/software and the right to change it at any time.

In other words Comcast will continue to provide Internet service that supports using the Internet, including Voip, but they are not responsible for configuring anything beyond their hardware/software.

_________________
ISP: Comcast - 15 Mbps Down / 1.6 Mbps Up
Ambit V10C018.80 Cable Modem
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Vonage customer since August 25, 2005
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ksig
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Joined: Jul 07, 2008
Posts: 183
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I agree csnet. To me it was merely a CYA for them and their service technicians. They can use it against people who try to get their techs to troubleshoot any devices they put on top of their connection. e.g. - Voip, Slingbox, Gaming Adapters, etc.
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tv
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Joined: Jan 24, 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well with that in mind - It seems clear that if one uses a third party Voip service such as Vonage "who is an FCC registered tel Co"there is no. No long term resolution to QoS issues other then change ISP.

I am curious to how the FCC can regulate Vonage and pass additional taxes to Vonage customers in the U.S but not enforce or lay out regulation for the carrier of the Vonage service.

My point is I am paying for Voange 35.00$ a month 45.00$ for Comcast and to night the QoS issues returned and I had to get off the phone with my wife.

Here is my current Voip test - I am moving in at the end of the month and I will not be returning to Comcast but getting onboard with AT&T - Hope this works else Vonage will have to go after three or four years.

Download speed 3294 Kbps (socket test)
Upload speed 1688 Kbps (socket test)
Quality of service 54 %
Maximum delay 260 ms
Round trip time 70 ms
Upstream jitter 40.5 ms
Upstream packet loss 0 %
Upstream packet order 100 %
Upstream discards 0 %
Downstream jitter 4.7 ms
Downstream packet loss 0 %
Downstream packet order 99 %
Downstream discards 0 %

02/17/09 - 8:35pm test right after broken conversation basically unusable "less your making a Verizon Commercial".

Cheers
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ksig
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Okay a couple of things...

First of all, I think you're confusing QoS with stable internet connection. You can have a great internet connection and not have QoS enabled at all. To quote from Wikipedia, "In the field of computer networking and other packet-switched telecommunication networks, the traffic engineering term quality of service (QoS) refers to resource reservation control mechanisms rather than the achieved service quality. Quality of service is the ability to provide different priority to different applications, users, or data flows, or to guarantee a certain level of performance to a data flow."

So with this in mind, QoS is basically setting priorities to the protocols running within the confines of your local network to the internet connection. If your connection works great for internet browsing, downloading music, watching IPTV, etc... you probably need to implement QoS rules. This goes no matter what internet service provider you have.

Setting up QoS depends on how your setup is. Is your Vonage adapter plugged directly into the Comcast cable modem or is the Vonage adapter plugged directly in first?

Either way, you'll need to login to the device and setup QoS based upon your network connection. You can unplug everything but the computer and the cable modem to define a baseline of what your internet speed is. Then setup rules that say any SIP or RTP data packets are given the highest QoS. This will push web browsing, data downloads, etc... to a lower priority making your phone calls with Vonage sound much more clear. Here is a quick and dirty QoS setup with DD-WRT routers. http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/3649346

I hope this may help you understand the difference between a good quality ISP and QoS within your local network.
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tv
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Joined: Jan 24, 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks Ksig - But you can search for my other post through out the past couple of months regarding the issue of QoS .

And for the record I do have QoS set up in my router in the event I am using the connection for something else while making calls or receiving calls on my Vonage service.

I believe the Latency on the network is considered part of QoS as for total bandwidth that is not an issue but rather the network management that my ISP implements or the lack there of.
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jonesdb
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Issues with Comcast as ISP Reply with quote Back to top

I too have been a long time Vonage user (5 years) and have had Comcast HSI all of that time. My Vonage voice quality has been fine for all those years until recently. Last September I switched my primary phone line to Vonage. Everything was great. Then around January 1 of this year I started having quality issues. The problem is that the party on the other end can't understand/hear me. Completely unusable at some times of the day, but also can be bad/unusagle at any time of day (i.e. 3 am for a local call)). The other party sounds fine on my end, but that's not much help for conversations. I did a fair amount of testing (every 20 minutes, 24 hours a day, for two weeks). The basic problem seems to be lost UPD upstream packets that are lost at the first Comcast node, though I did have a lot of jitter at various times. (Data is in spreadsheet with graphs if anyone is interested) I complained to Comcast on two different dates. (No new TOS yet) The answer I got from them was "there is no connection problem" , "why don't you switch to Comcast Digital Voice?" I suspect that Comcast is using network management techniques that are interfering with the Voip packets. I also reported my problems to Vonage and have filed a complaint with the FCC. It appears that Comcast is treating their own Voip packets differently than those of Vonage as I was assured that I wouldn't have any phone problems if I switched to CDV. I'm now looking for a new ISP, but mean time on Feb 1 all of a sudden my voice quality got a lot better and I had little or no problems until around Feb 15. when things got worse again though not as bad as previously. I think it is fairly obvious this is a Comcast issue and I think they are simply trying to push out any competing Voip
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tjoseph
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:28 am    Post subject: Issues with Comcast as ISP Reply with quote Back to top

jonesdb, I've been having exactly the same problems as you, and at exactly the same time periods. I have two Vonage devices (an RTP300 and a V-Portal) and have tried each of them in every possible configuration--in front of the router, behind it, in the DMZ, out of it. But it makes no diffreence.

I'm sure the problem lies within Comcast network, but the issue I have is that the standard speed tests and Voip quality tests (such as the ones in this forum) generally show good results. I've had Comcast look at my line, but this hasn't changed anything.

I'd be very interested in seeing the data you've collected and perhaps even running the same tests on my line if I can.

Unfortunately, Comcast is the only option I have for an ISP and as much as I hate to be forced to do so, I may have to switch to Comcast Digital Voice.
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westdc
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Joined: Feb 24, 2009
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Issues with Comcast as ISP Reply with quote Back to top

tjoseph wrote:
jonesdb, I've been having exactly the same problems as you, and at exactly the same time periods. I have two Vonage devices (an RTP300 and a V-Portal) and have tried each of them in every possible configuration--in front of the router, behind it, in the DMZ, out of it. But it makes no diffreence.

I'm sure the problem lies within Comcast network, but the issue I have is that the standard speed tests and Voip quality tests (such as the ones in this forum) generally show good results. I've had Comcast look at my line, but this hasn't changed anything.

I'd be very interested in seeing the data you've collected and perhaps even running the same tests on my line if I can.

Unfortunately, Comcast is the only option I have for an ISP and as much as I hate to be forced to do so, I may have to switch to Comcast Digital Voice.



I posted this on another thread--Looking like comcast has got it plan figured out .

you of course are aware of the fact that comcast and other cable and fiber providers, sell there own version of VIOP. Therefore past practice in the tel comm. industry has always been to disrupt the competition and make the end user angry so they will switch to their (insert) carrier name service which is trouble free.

As more people switch to void or cut the cord (cell phones) only the $$$ shrink so the vendors become sharks in a feeding frenzy for the remaining funds.
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jonesdb
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Issues with Comcast as ISP Reply with quote Back to top

tjoseph wrote:
I'd be very interested in seeing the data you've collected and perhaps even running the same tests on my line if I can.

I used the trial version of MyConnectionPC from Visualware
Visualware web pageThere is an automatic collection mode that I set for every 20 minutes.

I don't see a way to attach a file on this forum, so if you will pm me an email address I'll send you the excel file I compiled ~3.7MB (from excel 2002 sp3)
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