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areamike
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Dropped voice, static, noise over phone lines, ISP? Reply with quote Back to top

I am experiencing some weird issues with my Vonage service.

Here's my info:
Comcast Cable Modem SB5120

Speed test statistics
---------------------
Download speed: 8021680 bps
Upload speed: 2369992 bps
Quality of service: -- %
Download test type: socket
Upload test type: socket
Maximum download pause: 280 ms
Average download pause: 3 ms
Minimum round trip time to server: 65 ms
Average round trip time to server: 93 ms

Voip test statistics
--------------------
Jitter: you --> server: 0.8 ms
Jitter: server --> you: 1.1 ms
Packet loss: you --> server: 0.0 %
Packet loss: server --> you: 0.0 %
Packet discards: 0.0 %
Packets out of order: 0.0 %
Number of supported Voip lines: 40
Estimated MOS score: 4.2

CABLE MODEM>>NETGEAR ROUTER>>PC's and Vonage DEVICE

In my Router(Netgear WirelessN) I have set QoS for Vonage mac address to Highest. I have also set my bandwidth to Highest under my Vonage settings, yet there are occasions when I can hear the caller but they cannot hear me for 10 seconds at a time and when they talk I hear static or "phone noise" while they are talking.
I've tried many things. Such as:
Eliminating my Netgear router from the mix and using the Vonage Router directly hooked to my cable modem. Different cables, etc etc.

My QoS on the Vonage Speed test will vary a lot. Sometimes it registers nothing, and then other times I have seen it as high as 85%. There is almost ZERO consistency.

The more I ponder these issues, the more I think it is either the Cable modem or the ISP. Of course, I have contacted Comcast and they claim my Internet connection is great. I try not to mention Vonage too much to them in fear that they frown on me using Vonage instead of their Voip.

Any Ideas? Thoughts? Prayers? ha.
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areamike
Vonage Forum Junior
Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This topic here:
http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic13039.html
It covers a pretty interesting subject by the topic starter and I may be in the same boat so to speak.

However, I neither have the time or resources to go through what he did, just to prove Vonage has an issue. I know there is an issue based on my phone service and the way it drops calls etc. I have called Vonage a few times in the past and each time I can barely understand the tech support because of their heavy accent.

So I guess I have 2 choices. Put up with it or ditch Vonage. Time to ditch Vonage I guess because I NEED a reliable phone service, not some flaky half-assed service. NO wonder it is only 29.99 a month?
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areamike
Vonage Forum Junior
Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry for triple posting, yet I seem to be the only one replying to my topic.
I just read this:
Quote:
The Federal Communications Commission on Sunday penned a letter to Comcast asking why its updated network management policy says that heavy bandwidth users might experience "choppy" Voip communications on competitors like Vonage or Skype, but not necessarily on Comcast's own IP-based Digital Voice offering.


Article is here:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2339204,00.asp

Perhaps, switching to Comcast Voip is the solution, considering it has dropped it's price recently.
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VonTechMgr
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jan 02, 2008
Posts: 656
Location: NJ

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It is very possible that Comcast's new agnositc system is causing this problem as over the past 2 - 3 weeks, I have seen a rise in similar complaints from Comcast customers.


Taken from DSL Reports today.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Denies-Unfair-VoIP-Discrimination-100626

Comcast Denies Unfair Voip Discrimination
Argues it's ok that their own Voip service gets priority treatment...
10:37AM Tuesday Feb 03 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · competition · fcc · business · cable · Voip · net-neutrality · consumers · Comcast · Comcast · Vonage · ViaTalk

We were recently the first to report that the FCC was concerned that Comcast's new de-prioritization system would degrade competing Voip traffic, the agency writing a letter asking Comcast to explain how this wasn't anti-competitive, and why they hadn't previously mentioned the system's impact on Voip. The new, protocol agnostic system was deployed late last year, after our users discovered Comcast was forging TCP packets in order to slow P2P traffic for all users -- a practice that resulted in an FCC investigation, and a rather toothless "sanction."

Comcast's new system temporarily de-prioritizes the traffic for customers who meet two criteria: they're on a congested node, and they have been using 70% or more of their assigned upstream or downstream throughput for more than fifteen minutes. The FCC only just realized that these restrictions will impact competing Voip services, but not Comcast's own Digital Voice service. The FCC's late discovery speaks to the often glacial movement speed of the agency.

In addition to arguing the system was an anti-competitive weapon against other Voip, the FCC argued that because Comcast's Digital Voice service rides on a different layer from their broadband service and is not impacted by congestion management, it's technically a telecommunications service -- and subject to regulation and assorted fees. The FCC some time ago ruled cable and telco broadband were "information services," thereby freeing them from significant regulation.

This week Comcast filed their response (pdf) with the FCC, the pleasant but clinical retort denying that there was any discrepancy between their original filing with the FCC and their implemented system. Comcast insists they've always made clear their Digital Voice service is not an "over the top" Voip solution, and thereby not part of their high speed Internet (HSI) service -- in turn not subject to the FCC's demands. Comcast tells the FCC that if it makes them feel better, they do treat all over the top and content services the same, be they from Comcast or elsewhere. Comcast insists "enormous resources" are spent on being fair:
To succeed in a competitive marketplace, our HSI service must provide a hospitable environment for the full range of Internet-based applications and services, including over-the-top Voip and video. We devote enormous resources to that end. To the extent our HSI service becomes congested at times of very high demand, our new congestion management practices treat all Internet-based applications and services the same, whether they are affiliated with Comcast (e.g., Fancast) or not (e.g., Hulu, YouTube).
That was made evident in our recent report that Comcast was working on an online storage system the company tells us will count against the 250GB monthly Comcast cap. As for whether Comcast's treatment of competitors' Voip is anticompetitive, the FCC will likely pursue the issue further, given former FCC boss Kevin Martin is being replaced by interim and replacement leaders who both actually believe in network neutrality. Comcast says they have worked closely with carriers like Vonage to ensure quality communications, but that may not be enough.

"We hope this letter clarifies the 'apparent discrepancy' you perceived," the letter from Comcast lawyers sweetly concludes. The ball now sits in the court of interim FCC boss Michael Copps, and soon-to-be FCC boss Julius Genochowski.
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areamike
Vonage Forum Junior
Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Just to add more fuel to this topic. I have been in contact with Vonage over emails. They have me trying all the things I have tried many times before. They have not taken any of the advice I have given them to check their own servers for any problems.

My internet connection is fine. If Comcast is indeed causing the issue, then it is time for me to throw in the towel and switch to them since them seem to be the ones in control of the entire situation and Vonage is not going to help at all except have me jump through hoops and waste my time doing so.
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outerfire
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Dropped voice, static, noise over phone lines, ISP? Reply with quote Back to top

areamike wrote:
...
Maximum download pause: 280 ms
...
Minimum round trip time to server: 65 ms
Average round trip time to server: 93 ms

...
My QoS on the Vonage Speed test will vary a lot. Sometimes it registers nothing, and then other times I have seen it as high as 85%. There is almost ZERO consistency.

The more I ponder these issues, the more I think it is either the Cable modem or the ISP....


The QOS on the test does reflect your connection.

Also, Vonage isn't immune to problems on their end, but they do know when the exist. You're asking them to chase ghosts.
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areamike
Vonage Forum Junior
Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Must be a Comcast conspiracy then. I have two choices. Wait for the FCC to crack down on Comcast, or switch to Comcast Voip.

IRONICALLY, Comcast's Voip works on their ISP service, while Vonage has issues. I know this because a friend of mine locally has Comcast Voip, has the same internet service I have in the same town and he never has any of the issues I have.
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outerfire
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

areamike wrote:
IRONICALLY, Comcast's Voip works on their ISP service, while Vonage has issues.

VonTechMgr wrote:
...
The FCC only just realized that these restrictions will impact competing Voip services, but not Comcast's own Digital Voice service. The FCC's late discovery speaks to the often glacial movement speed of the agency.

In addition to arguing the system was an anti-competitive weapon against other Voip, the FCC argued that because Comcast's Digital Voice service rides on a different layer from their broadband service and is not impacted by congestion management, ....



Not saying this is your specific problem. However re-read the full post above and your situation isn't ironic at all. But there were a few possible issues with your speed test.


Last edited by outerfire on Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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VonTechMgr
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jan 02, 2008
Posts: 656
Location: NJ

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Comcast Voip customers are placed on a separate node from other Comcast users. This is done by provisioning the MAC address of the cable modem to a different node. These nodes are not nearly as crowded as the standard nodes. In addition, Comcast Voip packets are tagged so that they do have priority over all other traffic on their network. This is how any ISP can run QOS within their own network.
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areamike
Vonage Forum Junior
Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

outerfire wrote:
Not saying this is your specific problem. However re-read the full post above and your situation isn't ironic at all. But there were a few possible issues with your speed test.


My Speeds seem to vary.
outerfire wrote:

Also, Vonage isn't immune to problems on their end, but they do know when the exist. You're asking them to chase ghosts.

I agree. Asking Vonage to chase Ghosts is wrong of me. I should be more appreciative of their efforts. I apologize.

I guess in the end I am at the mercy of both Comcast and Vonage and mother nature if I want to pay for good phone service.


Speed test statistics
---------------------
Download speed: 6467584 bps
Upload speed: 2429192 bps
Quality of service: 70 %
Download test type: socket
Upload test type: socket
Maximum download pause: 93 ms
Average download pause: 4 ms
Minimum round trip time to server: 64 ms
Average round trip time to server: 88 ms

Voip test statistics
--------------------
Jitter: you --> server: 1.5 ms
Jitter: server --> you: 6.8 ms
Packet loss: you --> server: 0.0 %
Packet loss: server --> you: 0.0 %
Packet discards: 0.0 %
Packets out of order: 0.0 %
Number of supported Voip lines: 41
Estimated MOS score: 4.0
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