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kamnet
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Location: Mt. Sterling, KY

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

trekologer wrote:
Honestly, you're probablly better off with the wireless thing. An alarm sign/sticker/etc just tells a would-be robber to cut the phone line first.


Indeed. And if they're a smart thief, they'll cut the cable lines as well, just in case you do sign up for Voip *grin*
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VonTechMgr
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It is not a company's responsibility to inform a customer of every single detail that could possibly happen. A good consumer will always research a product before making the purchase especially when they have doubts about compatibility. And when researching, the information is readily available. Certain customers may have rooms to warm that cause networking equipment to fail. Should Vonage, ask the customer how warm their house is, what the barometric pressure is, how humid they keep their house? Probably not.

When you buy a car, do the sales people tell you that your brakes may only last for 25000 miles if you don't ask about it? Do they tell you that just because your speedometer goes up to 160 miles hour your car can't go that fast? Do they tell you that the posted mpg is based upon environment and how you drive and might not be accurate? The answer is no. You as the consumer are expected to ask the questions you seek answers for or perform your own research.

While a company can provide you with information you need, I don't know of any sales method that will provide any limitations up front unless the questions are asked directly.
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Steve48
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

For what it's worth, some alarms work well with Vonage and others don't. Mine, an older model, works fine. I always recommend that you try the lowest speed protocol that your alarm supports. That may work where a higher speed doesn't.

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rodman1234
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ed56 wrote:
rodman1234 wrote:
Thanks for the info (from the search) But where is it said signing up ??? or when I was going through the process?????(fine print??)


I agree. I missed it when I signed up for Vonage. After my Vonage was set up, I called the Alarm company to put the system in test mode so I would be sure it worked (just careful I guess). They informed me it was not compatible. I have a POTS line for business, so switched the alarm system to that line.

One company that can use broadband for alarm signals uses an Alarm broadband connector (yes you have to buy it).

See https://nextalarm.com/abn.jsp
Another is Ademco http://www.ademcoonline.com/abn.htm


I have been reading some say these aftermarket things are a bandaid is anyone useing one of these right know ???? Is it working?? I take it if the power was to go off this unit wont work ?

Also will this interfere with the phone jack being used from the jack to the router or will they need to put a new phone jack in for the alarm???
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rodman1234
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Every page of Vonage's Site Reply with quote Back to top

ed56 wrote:
rgnok wrote:
I agree with the comments that it could be better disclosed and agree with outerfire's comment "almost nowhere outside the fine print", but, to be fair . . . it is in the fine print on EVERY page of Vonage's web site, including the signup page . . . at the bottom in the footer, it says "Alarms and other systems may not be compatible".

Again . . . buried in the fine print, but there on every page.


I clicked through the current sign up process and on the page https://subscribe.vonage.com/account you will note that Vonage asks what type of internet connection have . . . with a hyperlink next to it "Why we ask", which states "Vonage requires a high speed connection . . ." making sure you have a broadband connection. A simple radio button asking Yes/No do you have an alarm system that will be dialed by Vonage could take you to a new page after submitting the form with a discussion about the possible issues. After a button labeled "Yes I understand that Vonage may not work with my alarm system", the process could continue.

Not too difficult!


I also understand what you say But if you already know you have highspeed then why would you press the button in the first place just another way to hide it. It really needs to be up front JMO!!!!
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outerfire
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

VonTechMgr wrote:
It is not a company's responsibility to inform a customer of every single detail that could possibly happen. A good consumer will always research a product before making the purchase especially when they have doubts about compatibility. And when researching, the information is readily available. Certain customers may have rooms to warm that cause networking equipment to fail. Should Vonage, ask the customer how warm their house is, what the barometric pressure is, how humid they keep their house? Probably not.

When you buy a car, do the sales people tell you that your brakes may only last for 25000 miles if you don't ask about it? Do they tell you that just because your speedometer goes up to 160 miles hour your car can't go that fast? Do they tell you that the posted mpg is based upon environment and how you drive and might not be accurate? The answer is no. You as the consumer are expected to ask the questions you seek answers for or perform your own research.

While a company can provide you with information you need, I don't know of any sales method that will provide any limitations up front unless the questions are asked directly.


I think more times that not I've defended Vonage. But these are poor analogies.

I agree that a company offering a product cannot plan for all ths uses a device needs to be compatable with. Really a homeowner needs to be well iinformed as what the liimitations are of Voip. But Vonage does try under circumstances as touting their product as an easy to use traditional landline replacement. Will alarm users recognize that there will be limitations? Some may but Vonage wants us to beleieve that a phone is a phone is a phone.

Now comparing alarms systems to car parts and barometric pressure or humidity is as well to me silly. Of course they wouldn't ask those things as they are independent of each other. A better example would have been comparing it to the type of fuel a car uses. What would happen if a dealer tried selling a hybrid in an area with very limited refueling options? Wouldn't that be something you want to know. What if the onboard navigation worked is say 75% of the country.

Bottom line to me. Vonage over simplifies sometimes and whiile they tout Voip as a landline alternative, ithey could be a little more upfront instead of burying in the TOS. They've been more upfront with the limitations of 911

Nor do I think that you should be infering that the OP isn't a good consumer. Methinks Vonage needs almost all the comsumers it can have.
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kamnet
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The reason that they're more up-front about 911 service is because if they were not then the government would likely go after them for not doing so. Honestly if Vonage didn't have to deal with 911 calls at all, they probably wouldn't.

I do agree that it's completely silly for Vonage to try to plan for every aspect of a prospective subscriber's needs, and that it should be on the subscriber to know what his or her needs are and to ask questions if they don't get answers. At the same time, if Vonage is specifically going to note in it in the TOS then it wouldn't hurt them to casually mention it during sign-up.
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VonTechMgr
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well outerfire, I just think all the people who complain about Voip, Vonage, or any technology are just plain out silly. There is so much information between Vonage's help section, to forum's, to just plain old Google. The majority of people who complain about something not working as expected are the same people who do not research for themselves and complain after the fact. They expect there to be a big Neon sign telling them every little thing that could possibly go wrong.

How could one expect Vonage to say Alarms do not work when there are people that have no issue. This is just like the people who say faxing does not work yet there are thousands of people who can fax successfully. A company will not state that something straight out does not work if it has high success rate and unfortunately there are just those out there that are to inept to make it work.

Any person who is technically inclined and spends the time looking into their problems will find the answer.
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outerfire
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

VonTechMgr,

I've perhaps been a little harsh. It's easy to do in the anonomity of a forum. But there is a part of your comments that scare me. My view of the original post in the beginning was that there was some frustration. Part of that probably lead to my simple post of the information.

Let's be clear. I've been a customer for coming up 5 years. I spent hours researching and hours tweaking. That's the limitations of newer technology. My personalilty is such that I want to know how things work. I suspect that you have similar. There are many that don't want to make that type of investment and just want them to work. It isn't fair of you and I to find fault with that. Results is what others want.

Vonage as a company needs customers and has chosen to advertise as a "typical" phone company alternative. They are going up against years and years of the "Bells". Myself, my parents talk often and ask many questions about switching. They know I've been landline free for years, and have had very very little trouble. They have yet to make the switch because they've become comfortable with the dependability of the phone company. Now for Vonage to appeal to customers they have to market towards what people have become comfortable with and use, means they've probably oversimplified how things work.

Now we have already pointed out in this thead that there are resources and ways to get an alarm system to work. As well I know faxing can be resolved as well. We both recognize that it isn't cut and dry and while some will say they can't do it, it really is more a case that they have issues that need resolved.

I do get frustrated when a post pops up here telling how woeful Vonage is because of some bogus issue. But we are a help forum here and that is what most posters here excel at. Many regulars here should be hired by Vonage for tech support.

Unfortunately, users that are technically inclined are not going to post here when they start having problems. They will as you have suggested searched, and spent time looking.

We get left with the rest and Vonage could use their money too
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rgnok
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

outerfire wrote:
Vonage over simplifies sometimes and whiile they tout Voip as a landline alternative, ithey could be a little more upfront instead of burying in the TOS.


But that is the point . . . Vonage is an ALTERNATIVE to traditional landline, not the same as . . . more and more cell providers are touting some of their plans as alternatives to land lines . . . and many people are starting to replace land lines exclusively with cell phones . . . very few, if any, cell companies state that the plans that they tout as alternatives for land lines are not compatible with alarm systems. Yes, at least to me that seems more obvious, but still -- the point is, offering an ALTERNATIVE to something does not imply that it is completely the same and works the same way . . . if a consumer infers this, it is the consumer's mistake and should call for more research on the consumers' part.
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