Craigslist blocking phone verification from Vonage phones

Posts: 5 · New Forum Member Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 5

Craigslist is using a phone authentication and verification process for posting. It appears to be blocking Voip phones such as Vonage. I have had Vonage for about 3 years and when I attempt to phone authenticate with my Vonage phone number it says that the phone number is not valid. I checked the craigslist discussion boards and it appears many other Vonage users are having the same issue.

Posts: 656 · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject:

Is the number your calling a toll free number? I have a felling it is. With Vonage, when calling toll free numbers, the number being passed to the receiving telephone carrier is not the number your calling from which is called the Charged Party Number. It is the Billing Telephone number of Vonage's carrier routing the call. When a popular number gets called many time in concession, the receiving carrier which owns the toll free number(AT&T and MCI in most cases) will block the number that is calling as it looks like an auto dialer spamming them due to the same number being passed over and over in the signaling.

This is one reason why you would hear a blocked message. This same thing has occurred with many Government agency numbers such as immigration.

If this is what is happening, Vonage has to open a ticket with their carrier and get to the receiving carrier that owns the toll free number in order for them to unblock the Billing Telephone Number.

Posts: 183 · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

Is this the same premise for local state 800 numbers? I have problems when I try to dial "state" 800 numbers. e.g. - My company has a national 800# and a local state 800#. The local state doesn't ever seem to work with Vonage.

Posts: 229 · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject:

I suspect that it will take some intervention from Craigslist's founders on this. Craigslist has started implementing a system for eliminating spammers by using a callback system to verify posts. The spammers got around this by at first using disposable numbers and services that offer a free contact number such as Grand Central and Gizmo Project. Craigslist responded by cutting these numbers off.

If the spammers have started to come to Vonage and other legitimate Voip providers to try to make this more difficult, this is going to be a very big issue to legitimate Vonage users. I wonder if Skype users will also be dealing with this.

Posts: 656 · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject:

ksig,

Not the same but similar. What you are referring to is regional toll free calling.

For example, if a small business sets up a toll free number, they may only be doing business with customers within a certain area code or state. Therefore, they request to have a regional toll free number which can only accept calls from callers within a certain area code or the area codes within a state. This is because the party who owns the toll free number has to pay for incoming minutes and does not want to accept calls from parties outside their area where they will not be doing business.

So if a Vonage caller dials this toll free number, while the Vonage phone number might be from the same area code that would be local to the toll free number, the actual CPN(Calling Party Number)passed in the SS7 is the BTN(Billing Telephone Number) used for the Vonage carrier routing the call. This would either be a number from LA, NYC, or VA. So if these numbers are not local to the region that the toll free number will accept calls from, the caller will hear a message stating that "calls from local calling area cannot be completed". This would be no different if a person who did not live in the local area to the toll free number dialed from a cell phone or PSTN line. The end result may have a different message or fast busy but it would not route.

This is why you may see some businesses or agencies will have 2 numbers. A toll free number listed as the main number and a non toll free number with a note next to it that states"if calling from outside the state".

Posts: 229 · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject:

Actually now that I think more on it I think what is happening is a spammer purchases a Vonage number, then picks up a second virtual number that is local to the Craigslist community site, and they use it until their number starts getting blocked because their posts are tagged as spam. That virtual number is deactivated and another virtual number is purchased. No penalty to the spammer from Vonage, but get enough spammers abusing the virtual number system and now either a Vonage user picks up a virtual number that is blocked by Craigslist, or the admin for the local Craigslist community blocks all numbers from the block numbers that Vonage uses for these virtual numbers.

Posts: 183 · Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject:

VonTechMgr - That makes sense now. Generally I just dial non-800 numbers anyway due to the free long distance with Vonage.

Posts: 7 · New Forum Member Joined: Aug 12, 2008 Posts: 7

Our local pizza place no longer allows delivery orders from Vonage phones. It's a bit frustrating but they don't allow "unusual" caller ID results due to driver security.

If this kind of stuff starts becoming commonplace, I might need to go back to a cheap landline service and a cell for long distance.

Posts: 229 · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject:

PirateKatz wrote:

Our local pizza place no longer allows delivery orders from Vonage phones. It's a bit frustrating but they don't allow "unusual" caller ID results due to driver security.

If this kind of stuff starts becoming commonplace, I might need to go back to a cheap landline service and a cell for long distance.

That would be a case where I'd start getting to know the manager of that store and let them know to recognize your number. They should be able to cross-reference your phone number with your address and recognize that you're not going to rob their drivers.

Posts: 656 · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject:

PirateKatz,

What you must be referring to is completely unrelated however I will explain what I believe is happening.

Caller ID is pulled from a CNAM database by the receiving party's phone service provider. It is not passed by the calling side. Since Vonage does not offer Name on Outbound Caller ID, they do not populate names into any CNAM databases for their numbers.

What this means is that when you call someone who is not a Vonage customer, their telephone provider will dip into a CNAM database to reference the calling number. Since there will be no name in the database, the receiving carrier may populate the Caller ID name with an industry standard variable which could "Out of Area", "Unknown", "Unavailable", or "City / State"(this would be the market your number comes from). All of these variables are acceptable values that can be passed for numbers that do not yield a name. Non of these are used for Anonymous phone calls when the Presentation is marked as Restricted.

If the Pizza place is refusing to deliver because they can't see a name that really is poor customer service. The number is still present and that is all that should matter. What if the caller used a cell phone to order. Not all cell phone providers populate the databases with name and in most cases the party receiving the call will only see "Wireless Caller".