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PhilT
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I was thinking that if you are transferring your number to Vonage, then your name and number is in the CNAM database and will appear in any caller id display of people you call. (unless you tell Vonage to delete your listing? this may only be for directory assistance and phone books...)

So can anyone confirm that if youtransfer your old landline number, then caller id is still sent?

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reebok
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

until it's updated. then you're dropped. it's not "john doe's" line anymore, it's vonage's.

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DarKev
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This stuff is very confusing. One company says that if Vonage contacts them that they would gladly hold all of the names for their caller id for free. Another post says it is impossible to have caller id with name on a telephone system using SIP interfacing with the PSTN telephone system. Another says that Vonage will be adding the names later on. Another post indicates that it is impossible for Vonage to add the names.

I can honestly say that I do not know really what is going on with this. I only know that not displaying the name seems to be a step backwards. In Canada, Caller Id came out in the early 1980s, and it was number only. By the end of the 1980s, name display was also available. This was almost 15 years ago now! 15 years later, we've lost the ability to transmit the name. It surprises me that nobody thought of this feature when they were designing Voip, and the interfaces between it and PSTN. This is why I tend to think that it was thought of, but something is just not right with how it is being implemented.
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PhilT
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If CNAM is being queried at the terminating line (which I pretty sure it is), then it would seem that all they have to do is make sure that the CNAM db is left alone when the number is moved or modified when Vonage adds a new dn.

Again, if Vonage can affect whether your old number stays in the directory assistance and phone books, it would seem that the CNAM db can be left alone too.

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ArnB
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

My understanding of this situation:
1. Vonage cannot pass the name to the PSTN
2. Vonage can add names to a LIDB if they choose and apparently without charge
3. If the receiving customer subscribes to Caller Id with name, their Telco will find the name in the LIDB and display it

When Vonage adds Caller Name I suggest the following selections on the feature
1. Show name and number
2. Show number only
3. Show nothing (Anonymous line)
The name used for the LIDB will be the account name, although some customers may want to change what's displayed.
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yarnia
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I really just don't understand why Vonage can't make this work. I guess I'm just dense.

5 years ago I worked at a company that had the ability to publish what I guess must be these LIDB entries themselves. We had like 15,000 people in the company, so this way we could put names and departments to the lines and change them ourselves when people's extensions moved. If it was a new number activation, it was almost instant. When we changed an old line to a new name it was usually about 24-48 hours before it started showing up right on outside phones (I guess time for the change to propigate).

It used to use SS7 or something like that to send the name, but that was troublesome when the phone guys started dealing with offices around the country on different providers and all of that, so they changed to some other system that was "independent" of their phone system (i.e. their phone system no longer passed along the information like it used it, it was looked up elsewhere). I'm hypothesizing that it was this LIDB thing.

My cell phone used to come up "Unknown Name". Just for kicks I added an entry in with my number and name. It worked. My number started showing up with my name. From what the guys at work tell me, this was because the carrier was sending nothing, so there was no match -- if I put one it, it used it.

Then about a year later they started using "Cellular Caller" as the name and must have started issuing updates because that's how my name started showing up. About a month later they started allowing customers to change the "CNAM" field if you called customer service to ask for it. I did this, and once again it works.

I understand everything is different with Vonage, but does anyone here work at a company with access to such a system as I used to have? Perhaps someone could give it a try and see if we're seeing "Unknown Name" because there's no match -- or if Vonage's lines have been forced to never look up the name for whatever reason (a side effect of how they're interfacing with the phone number for instance). Like I know we had certain lines at my company that we couldn't update because they went through some complex routing process (combinations of T3's to get to an office on the other side of the country where it grabbed an available trunk line).

If it works, I'd imagine we could make a few calls and find a company that would be willing to issue the entries for a small fee.

I DID read all of the referenced threads and posts, but I just don't understand. If Vonage can overide the number why can't they get the name to work. My cell phone has ANI issues like Voange (can't activate a credit card or use automatic id services because it shows up with a trunk number or something) and they still manage to work it out.
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sajer
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ArnB wrote:
My understanding of this situation:
1. Vonage cannot pass the name to the PSTN
2. Vonage can add names to a LIDB if they choose and apparently without charge
3. If the receiving customer subscribes to Caller Id with name, their Telco will find the name in the LIDB and display it


All correct, except possibly the part about it being free. I know that is what the LIBDB company said, but my understanding is that there is a cost to the service provider (otherwise how would accutel make money).
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yarnia
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I had a nice talk with the Accudata lady today and asked her just that question.

The phone company doing the look-up pays a fee for the look-up. Accudata makes their money off of this fee, and shares some of the profit back to the CLEC.

I spoke to her about my company's lines (new job, not the same as the old one I posted about before) that are with a cheap alternative landline carrier who also shows up as "Unknown Caller" like Vonage.

She said that if the carrier has no matching entries in the system already, it's trivial to have them add this information. If the carrier is unwilling to add it themselves, all they need is a letter from the carrier authorizing them to handle this for my company, a list of names and numbers, and it *should* work.

Like the previous poster said, they don't do it on an individual basis. But she said that they'd be happy to work with my company and our 300 numbers if I can get a letter of permission from the carrier.

I wonder if Vonage would issue this letter so we could give it a whirl and see if it works. If it's technically possible, we could pool our numbers and submit one bulk request like my company is going to be doing.

Then again, I find it hard to believe that Vonage hasn't investigated this themselves. She said they work with smaller carriers that don't want to pay to list with the bigger carriers. Sounds like Vonage would fit the bill, so there has to be some reason they wouldn't do it.
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DarKev
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It is interesting that all companies would not strive to satisfy the "name" portion of the caller id information. We should be going forward with our features, not backwards. Caller id with Name is a great thing. I don't know if others are like me, but I find it very difficult to memorize 50 phone numbers from the various people and businesses that call me. If the name feature was completely gone from all phones, it would almost make Caller ID useless to me. I would often not know who is calling before I picked up my phone.

I just hope that other Voip providers are not doing the same thing. If people are switching to Voip more and more, it means the name feature will completely disappear.
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jlsoaz
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject: thanks for the response Reply with quote Back to top

LC wrote:
check this post out:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,11327439~mode=flat


Thanks for this link. It did explain things. Astroguy states that it would cost Vonage and others money and labor (the latter of which is obviously in short supply) to ramp up to fix this. I say "fix" because I would in fact like to see it. I don't like when folks call me and it displays "unknown" and I'd like to "do unto others" phone-wise.
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