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SweetErika
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Outbound Calls Don't Go Through Reply with quote Back to top

1. Your location About 20 miles outside of Seattle proper.

2. Your ISP name and type (cable, DSL, wireless etc) Comcast, cable

3. Upload and download speeds
Download: 627 kbps
Upload: 1.6 Mbps

4. Modem make and model Motorola Surfboard 5100 (and getting a newer one doesn't help the problem)

5. Type of Vonage adapter used ie RT31P2 or PAP2All the adapter says is V-tech Model # 8100-2 (it's just about 2 years old).
6. Setup of Network ie Modem---->Vonage Adapter-->PC Not quite sure, since there are a lot of wires. I think the connection goes through a router and into the desktop, and then the Vonage adapter comes off of that. However, we've put the adapter all sorts of places in the network for various other reasons, and it doesn't help this problem.

7. Issue you are experiencing ie dropped calls, choppy audio etc Trouble placing 10-digit outbound calls (so, ones outside my area code). I get a dial tone, dial, and then there's just silence until I hang up. Sometimes (maybe 1/15 times I dial) they go through, but I haven't been able to pin down what makes that happen. It seems to get better when I dial immediately after hanging up another (even incoming) call, but I'm not sure about that.

I've tried waiting longer to dial, dialing slower, dialing w/ the phone off then turning it on, using redial and speakerphone, dialing a 1 first, etc. It doesn't seem to have any relationship to how I dial, though trying different methods makes ME feel better when my calls aren't getting through. Rolling Eyes

Yes, I've called Vonage tech support, and they don't see a problem.

We've had Vonage for a couple of years. There was no problem at first, up until maybe a year ago. The problem has gotten worse over time, it seems. That makes me wonder if it has something to do with Vonage getting more users/being overloaded.

7. Voip test results:
Quote:
Download test type: socket

Upload test type: socket

Maximum download pause: 211 ms

Average download pause: 25 ms

Minimum round trip time to server: 70 ms

Average round trip time to server: 71 ms



Voip test statistics

--------------------

Jitter: you --> server: 0.8 ms

Jitter: server --> you: 0.4 ms

Packet loss: you --> server: 0.0 %

Packet loss: server --> you: 0.5 %

Packet discards: 0.0 %

Packets out of order: 0.0 %

Number of supported Voip lines: 4

Estimated MOS score: 4.0


I've tried finding an answer to this here and elsewhere online, but info seems to be very spotty.

Any ideas on what's likely going on? Or, better yet, how to fix it?

Thanks in Advance! Smile
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butterman
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Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Let me ask a few things to get some more information.

1. You mention that this problem is with 10 digit calls. Are you implying that local calls always go through fine? This is an important distinction to make since this limits the problem.

2. Have you tried to verify that you don't have issues getting incoming calls?

3. What brand/model router are you using between the Cable modem and the Vtech?

4. What happens when you power everything off (Cable Modem, Router and Vonage) and then back on again? Does the connection start working? (Also note that they should be powered off/on in that order, Cable Modem, Router, Vonage, waiting 30 seconds between each device)

I would make one general comment. The problem probably has nothing to do with Vonage having more users or being overloaded. If something like that were going on, we would have many reports of spotty service on this forum and we just haven't seen that.

_________________
Vonage Customer since: 11/2004
ISP: Time Warner (RoadRunner)
Location: NC
Network Setup: Motorola SB5101->Linksys WRT54GL (Running Tomato) ->RT31P2 & PAP2
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SweetErika
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Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

butterman wrote:
Let me ask a few things to get some more information.

1. You mention that this problem is with 10 digit calls. Are you implying that local calls always go through fine? This is an important distinction to make since this limits the problem.
I don't know that they always go through, but they seem to. When I call our cell phones, my mom and other people in the same area code as our phone, I seem to get through without issue. At least it hasn't been a problem more recently.

When I dial people in my area code, I sometimes dial just the number, and other times I add the area code, so I don't think it's a problem with dialing ten digits instead of seven.

Quote:
2. Have you tried to verify that you don't have issues getting incoming calls?
I've never had a complaint about not getting through, nor have I ever had trouble calling home, so I'm thinking we can safely assume this is only a problem with outbound calls, and the incoming are fine.

Quote:
3. What brand/model router are you using between the Cable modem and the Vtech?
The router is a Linux box, though we have had several different routers since we've had Vonage. My husband is pretty tech savvy and has tried a lot of things, including different routers and configurations.

Quote:
4. What happens when you power everything off (Cable Modem, Router and Vonage) and then back on again? Does the connection start working? (Also note that they should be powered off/on in that order, Cable Modem, Router, Vonage, waiting 30 seconds between each device)
I'm pretty sure that's been tried to no avail. It's not something I can try again for a couple of weeks, when my husband gets home, though.

I have tried powering off the Vonage adapter to see if that has any effect. I don't think it does though.

Quote:
I would make one general comment. The problem probably has nothing to do with Vonage having more users or being overloaded. If something like that were going on, we would have many reports of spotty service on this forum and we just haven't seen that.
Perhaps it's not that exactly, or even at all, but it seems awfully fishy that we didn't have problems for a time after we signed up, it seems to be getting progressively worse and be more of an issue during peak hours, even through changes in our networking hardware. Bizarre!
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butterman
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Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I wish I had much more to go on, but I don't.

Your responses make sense, they just don't leave much to look in to.

The one thing we haven't considered yet is that maybe the Vonage device is going bad.

I'm far from convinced that its something like this since certain types of calls seem to be fine, but its the only other thing that comes to mind.

The only other thing I would suggest (and your husband will hate this if he knows what he's doing) is to remove the Linux box as the router and just put a simple router in place to make sure its not some type of firewall issue or quirky routing problem that's causing the issue. Just to be clear, I see nothing in your description that tells me that this is the issue, its just the only other thing (other than replacing the Vonage device) that I can think of.

_________________
Vonage Customer since: 11/2004
ISP: Time Warner (RoadRunner)
Location: NC
Network Setup: Motorola SB5101->Linksys WRT54GL (Running Tomato) ->RT31P2 & PAP2
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Darrell_G
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Joined: Nov 05, 2005
Posts: 881

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This sounds more like a Vonage related issue or the Vonage adapter itself. If you can, remove all your networking equipment except for your cable modem and your Vonage adapter. Try now to make an outbound call to an area code outside of your area. If the problem still persists, you now know it's not related to your other networking equipment and the issue is strictly related to either your Vonage adapter or within the Vonage network itself.
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SweetErika
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Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

butterman wrote:

The only other thing I would suggest (and your husband will hate this if he knows what he's doing) is to remove the Linux box as the router and just put a simple router in place to make sure its not some type of firewall issue or quirky routing problem that's causing the issue. Just to be clear, I see nothing in your description that tells me that this is the issue, its just the only other thing (other than replacing the Vonage device) that I can think of.
Yeah, I don't think it's our router since we've used at least three different routers (traditional and linux) with a bunch of different security configurations since the problem started. However, I'll have Hubby double check by doing the traditional/direct setup when he gets home.

Damn... I was expecting to get something along the lines of, "Oh yeah, we've heard of this problem before, and here's what's causing it..."
So much for that kind of wishful thinking, huh? Very Happy

Now that I know it's a problem with dialing outside of my area code, instead of just dialing out period, maybe I'll try calling Vonage's tech support again. I doubt the fine folks offshore can do anything for me, but maybe they can do some investigating that I can't.
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SweetErika
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Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I mean absolutely no offense to the member who PM'd me, but I'm really security-conscious...

So, I got a PM asking for my MAC address, saying they could look into my problem by placing my device on debug and having me make local and 10-digit calls to see what happens. I'm guessing they have some kind of inside knowledge to be able to do that.

Is it a good idea to work with this person, or should I go through customer service directly? What, if any, personal info (name, phone, address, billing info, etc.), could they obtain with my MAC address?
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brian188
Vonage Forum Master
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Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 203

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

First do not give your MAC address to anyone!
There is nothing that will help them help you by giving that info... nothing! And yes the MAC addy and some other easily obtainable info could hijack your service.

Now for your problem. It sounds relatively simple to me. It is a NAT issue. You make it sound complex by adding the 10-digit dialing in to the equation. I don't think that has anything to do with it at all.

The first thing I would do is eliminate everything except the ATA for about 12-24 hours. Try to make your calls infrequent (if possible). Can you survive without interent access that long? lol

Why I am thinking NAT? Because if your ATA falls out of the NAT, when you make a call (10, 7, 11 digit) you will get a dial tone followed by dead air. Basically what happens is your router "forgets" the ATA is there. The ATA doesn't see a problem because it "thinks" it is registered to Vonage server (hence the dial tone).

If connecting without your router for several hours corrects the problem, let us know. We can then start to work on your router, or you can contact Vonage and they can configure your STUN or registration timer.
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SweetErika
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Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

brian188 wrote:
First do not give your MAC address to anyone!
There is nothing that will help them help you by giving that info... nothing! And yes the MAC addy and some other easily obtainable info could hijack your service.

Now for your problem. It sounds relatively simple to me. It is a NAT issue. You make it sound complex by adding the 10-digit dialing in to the equation. I don't think that has anything to do with it at all.

The first thing I would do is eliminate everything except the ATA for about 12-24 hours. Try to make your calls infrequent (if possible). Can you survive without interent access that long? lol

Why I am thinking NAT? Because if your ATA falls out of the NAT, when you make a call (10, 7, 11 digit) you will get a dial tone followed by dead air. Basically what happens is your router "forgets" the ATA is there. The ATA doesn't see a problem because it "thinks" it is registered to Vonage server (hence the dial tone).

If connecting without your router for several hours corrects the problem, let us know. We can then start to work on your router, or you can contact Vonage and they can configure your STUN or registration timer.

Yep, my husband and I talked about it, and decided it'd be best to wait to do anything more until he gets home (hopefully in about 10 days!), instead of giving out potentially sensitive info and trying different hardware configurations now (which could leave me without internet access for a lot longer than 12-24 hrs!). He doesn't see a HUGE problem with giving the MAC address of the Vonage device, but we're better safe than sorry.

Since i posted this thread, I've made quite a few phone calls, and have been able to test my "home area code" (425) vs. "not home area code"(206, 253, etc.) theory many times. My calls to 425 always seem to go through, whereas the other calls rarely go through. Yesterday I noticed I had better luck with the 10-digit calls when I had just hung up from someone calling me. So, I'm pretty convinced this is playing some kind of role, though I don't know if it's creating the problem or is simply a manifestation of the problem.

So, I'm going to have to put my sleuthing on hold for 10+ days, but in the meantime (so I don't have to bug you again), what's ATA and NAT? I'll have my guy read this and we'll report back on what we find out.
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brian188
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Posts: 203

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hi ATA is probably a bad term to use here but it stands for Analog Telephone Adapter. You have an ATA/router combo. The ATA function is what makes your phone calls possible, the router provides a shared internet access across several devices (i.e. PC's, ATA, media centers etc.) through the use of one Public IP address. NAT stands for Network Address Translation. Essentially you have 1 public IP address (xx.xx.xx.xx or something similar) provided by your Internet Service Provider (ISP). NAT allows you to have several different internal IP addresses (192.168.x.x or something similar) for each piece of equipment attached to it using that 1 public IP. So what I thought might be happening is your device is registering with your router getting an internal ip of lets say 192.168.1.100 so when Vonage servers send a call to your public IP the router then routes that traffic to 192.168.1.100. But if a substantial amount of time has passed since there has been activity between your router and ATA it is possible the 192.168.1.100 address has expired and your router will not know what to do with traffic coming in or going out from it.

So based on your further description, this is most likely moot. If it was a NAT problem NO CALLS would go through. You would not be able to make a local call then immediately not be able to call long distance.

At this point I'd be thinking there is problem on Vonage's side, not being able to route your calls properly. What you can do over the next few days while you wait for your husband is to keep track. See if can find any similarity. Can you make some calls to 206 AC or no calls to the 206. If some what exchanges? just one or several, etc. That will help Vonage correct the problem if it is in fact a routing issue on thier side.
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