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Sovereign
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: Proper / Ideal Setup when using 20 + Lines Reply with quote Back to top

I have had two clients in as many weeks that have had 15 to 20 lines installed in a business environment. I understand the bandwith requirements for both upload and download speed as well as the concept of factoring in other network usage to help rule that out as an issue. I guess I should mention I am their contracted IT guy -- so essentially I manage their networks and was asked to execute the switch of their phone service as well.

Interestingly enough neither of these clients is using any form of internal phone system (PBX or otherwise) we are talking about individual phones on individual sales persons desks. Most of the guys have two line phones, with the exception of two receptionists which manage 4 lines each at their desk. They are achieving any PBX type functionality via their call hunt setups etc.

Both have had all of their phones essentially crash simultaneously. My argument for this is a momentary loss of internet connection -- possibly a short surge or something to that effect. As if having all of your phones go down at the same instant wasn't enough, in both cases they failed to come back on line properly. Again in both cases a reboot of the actual ISP's modem (both clients have Cable) resulted in everything returning to normal. My guess on this issue is that the ATA's all coming back online simultaneously before the modem had completed its reboot resulted in none of the ATA's being handed out their internal IP's. This is a timing issue I feel I can do nothing about. But this is where things get really fishy !!

Vonage Tech support tells me at the first location that cascading or daisy chaining the ATA's together has absolutely no impact on the quality of service -- ie. the last device in the chain has access to just as much bandwith as the first device in the chain. That said I had already seperated the stack of ATA's into two groups, 7 on the first stack and 8 in the second, the first in each stack attached to the router fed by the modem (on this installation I actually have two cable modems, one to service each router feeding each stack of ATA's simply because the bandwith on the upload side was too borderline in my opinion to be reliable so we had a second modem installed.) The guys in this office are looking at real time market data all day long so we have yet a third modem strictly for the network.

Then at the second location Vonage Tech support tells me that each ATA should go directly to a switch/router or hub rather than be daisy chained. Also in this case with the 20 lines, there are 20 ATA's -- Vonage Tech tells me that it would be better to have two lines out of each ATA rather than just the one (well why didn't they just send out 10 ATA's then?? The answer to that became apparent when we realized that they had signed the client up for 20 individual accounts -- I guess some sales kid was really going for the Gold on this one)!!

In any event does anyone know the real answer to this question. What is ideal or proper in terms of how they should be setup. From what I understand of networking it really should not make a difference unless the LAN ports on the ATA's are throttled back. Otherwise you should be able to daisy chain things like crazy without incident.

One of the techs suggested we get a gigabyte switch, but I think its a little bit of overkill being that no matter what things will back up at the modem and we do not have anywhere near that much bandwith being consumed internally on either of these networks. I.E. no one is transferring huge files back and forth to the server or anything like that -- internal traffic is very low
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ImpetusEra
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper / Ideal Setup when using 20 + Lines Reply with quote Back to top

Sovereign wrote:
I have had two clients in as many weeks that have had 15 to 20 lines installed in a business environment. I understand the bandwith requirements for both upload and download speed as well as the concept of factoring in other network usage to help rule that out as an issue. I guess I should mention I am their contracted IT guy -- so essentially I manage their networks and was asked to execute the switch of their phone service as well.

Interestingly enough neither of these clients is using any form of internal phone system (PBX or otherwise) we are talking about individual phones on individual sales persons desks. Most of the guys have two line phones, with the exception of two receptionists which manage 4 lines each at their desk. They are achieving any PBX type functionality via their call hunt setups etc.

Both have had all of their phones essentially crash simultaneously. My argument for this is a momentary loss of internet connection -- possibly a short surge or something to that effect. As if having all of your phones go down at the same instant wasn't enough, in both cases they failed to come back on line properly. Again in both cases a reboot of the actual ISP's modem (both clients have Cable) resulted in everything returning to normal. My guess on this issue is that the ATA's all coming back online simultaneously before the modem had completed its reboot resulted in none of the ATA's being handed out their internal IP's. This is a timing issue I feel I can do nothing about. But this is where things get really fishy !!

Vonage Tech support tells me at the first location that cascading or daisy chaining the ATA's together has absolutely no impact on the quality of service -- ie. the last device in the chain has access to just as much bandwith as the first device in the chain. That said I had already seperated the stack of ATA's into two groups, 7 on the first stack and 8 in the second, the first in each stack attached to the router fed by the modem (on this installation I actually have two cable modems, one to service each router feeding each stack of ATA's simply because the bandwith on the upload side was too borderline in my opinion to be reliable so we had a second modem installed.) The guys in this office are looking at real time market data all day long so we have yet a third modem strictly for the network.

Then at the second location Vonage Tech support tells me that each ATA should go directly to a switch/router or hub rather than be daisy chained. Also in this case with the 20 lines, there are 20 ATA's -- Vonage Tech tells me that it would be better to have two lines out of each ATA rather than just the one (well why didn't they just send out 10 ATA's then?? The answer to that became apparent when we realized that they had signed the client up for 20 individual accounts -- I guess some sales kid was really going for the Gold on this one)!!

In any event does anyone know the real answer to this question. What is ideal or proper in terms of how they should be setup. From what I understand of networking it really should not make a difference unless the LAN ports on the ATA's are throttled back. Otherwise you should be able to daisy chain things like crazy without incident.

One of the techs suggested we get a gigabyte switch, but I think its a little bit of overkill being that no matter what things will back up at the modem and we do not have anywhere near that much bandwith being consumed internally on either of these networks. I.E. no one is transferring huge files back and forth to the server or anything like that -- internal traffic is very low


Sounds like a disaster. At the least place the modems and routers on a UPS to avoid the issue with them coming up after the ATA devices in a power failure. If it's a matter of the router losing connection to the modem then invest in better routers.
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ok
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Joined: Jun 13, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Connecting as many as possible to the switch would work better than daisy chaning. You don't need a Gigabit switch for 20 lines, 100Mbit will do just fine.
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