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Darrell_G
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Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Nov 05, 2005
Posts: 881

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Arthur_lw wrote:
Darrell_G wrote:
To answer your initial question, 90 kbps of upload speed is required per line.

One should point out that this is a bare minimum. You are just barely out of the red on the speed ramp at that rate. And if you want it to sound like you are calling from next door you better BE next door.

The speed test can read my speeds pretty well if the simualted call is relatively close -- say Chicago or L.A., but choose Italy for a test and the speeds slump some. I imagine 90Kbps would tank somewhere in the red if one tried any sort of long-distance calling.


Dude, you need to get over yourself. I was merely pointing out to him that Vonage recommends an upload speed of 90kbps or greater per phone line. If you look at his latest speed test result for upload speed, he tested out at 682kbps or enough to support 11 lines. Need I say more?
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clark9825
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Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes 90k is recommended for each line and 90k is 90k whether it's next door or around the world it does not matter. The only consideration is the number of hops that can cause latency. You should be fine myrison, and please do not get discouraged from posting here. Everyone I have dealt with here has been very friendly. If everyone were to be snapped at here this forum would crumble, hopefully the admin is monitoring this thread to avoid having anyone feel less than welcome. Please post anytime you feel you need to.

Alan
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Arthur_lw
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Joined: Jan 26, 2008
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Calm down you two. Get a grip. Keep your cool. Not everybody gets snapped at here. That is a hysterical exaggeration.

But if someone says his DSL is new and therefore was acting abnormally and now it's starting to settle down, is that your experience when you get a new ISP? Does that make any sense?

Normally if you are an honest customer who signs up for service and establishes an account do they not send out a tech and install it and check it out to make sure it is working and you are happy with the service?

I can see if you are ripping off cable from a neighbor or something you would have issues, but c'mon! You enroll for new Internet connection and the first thing they do is schedule a time for the tech to come out and install it for you.

Defend this guy all you want, but if you are so in need of helping people who will not comply with and will not respect the forum rules then I say you are welcome to get jacked around and take your medicine. Let's see how long you get fed up with being full of self.

Me? I think the administrator has the right to post a sticky and expect it be respected. You guys want to enable those who can't be bothered to comply with that, or have issues with following rules.

Whatever your motives, if my wanting to see the forum rules complied with is being full of myself then you have a funny way of judging people. This guy took it upon himself to decide if the rules applied to him. Talk about being full of oneself. Or shall we call it arrogance and juvenile rebellion?

Coddle him all you want. Now spit venom at me. I won't be receiving updates, but for the rational people who will read this they can decide who was reasonable and who was/were irrational.

_________________
No trees were cut down in the making of this post, but some electrons were horribly neutertroned in the process!
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Darrell_G
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Joined: Nov 05, 2005
Posts: 881

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Arthur_lw wrote:
Calm down you two. Get a grip. Keep your cool. Not everybody gets snapped at here. That is a hysterical exaggeration.

But if someone says his DSL is new and therefore was acting abnormally and now it's starting to settle down, is that your experience when you get a new ISP? Does that make any sense?

Normally if you are an honest customer who signs up for service and establishes an account do they not send out a tech and install it and check it out to make sure it is working and you are happy with the service?

I can see if you are ripping off cable from a neighbor or something you would have issues, but c'mon! You enroll for new Internet connection and the first thing they do is schedule a time for the tech to come out and install it for you.

Defend this guy all you want, but if you are so in need of helping people who will not comply with and will not respect the forum rules then I say you are welcome to get jacked around and take your medicine. Let's see how long you get fed up with being full of self.

Me? I think the administrator has the right to post a sticky and expect it be respected. You guys want to enable those who can't be bothered to comply with that, or have issues with following rules.

Whatever your motives, if my wanting to see the forum rules complied with is being full of myself then you have a funny way of judging people. This guy took it upon himself to decide if the rules applied to him. Talk about being full of oneself. Or shall we call it arrogance and juvenile rebellion?

Coddle him all you want. Now spit venom at me. I won't be receiving updates, but for the rational people who will read this they can decide who was reasonable and who was/were irrational.


Look, Jason asked a very simple question, "what bandwidth is required/recommended to allow for two lines to be used at the same time." If you didn't know the answer, sometimes the best thing to say is to say nothing at all. Jason has been nothing short of cordial to you, I can't say the same for you. Now I think I'll take my own advice and end this conversation.

Welcome aboard Jason.
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clark9825
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Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Arthur, like Darrell mentioned if you do not want to help then don't respond. He asked a simple question and you ripped him a new one because he didn't follow the sticky. What do you care if he is jerking people around what does he have to gain by doing so? This forum is designed to help people not chastise them because they didn't follow a direction. I guess you followed every direction that was given to you in your life. There is no need to be rude or to talk down to anyone here. So do everyone here a favor and do not post if you can't address people in a kind and courteous manner. Nothing irritates me more than infantile behavior.


Alan


P.S. My apologies to Jason and everyone that has seen this post this is not indicative of the type of help that is offered here. I have had nothing but praise for all the people that offer great advice.
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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

On the topic of bandwidth, and how many lines can be supported for a given tested speed.

Obviously, there's a whole discussion of latency, round-trip times, etc, that goes into the quality of a line. However, having said that, Vonage is being very conservative in the number of actual lines a connection could theoretically support.

Although Vonage recommends 90kbps per line, in both directions, remember that Vonage is using a codec for their "full" quality that really only consumes 64kbps, and even with a generous chunk for overhead you may not even approach 90kbps. Still, 90 is a really good recommendation to keep expectations reasonable - you always want a good factor for overhead.

For those running low on "spare" bandwidth for Vonage, though, there is the quality adjustment. Using your online account, you can "dial back" Vonage's bandwidth consumption to a more svelte 50kbps (which uses a 32k codec, if I recall correctly), and even 30kbps (which uses a 20k codec and could theoretically be useable even over a good, relatively low-latency dialup connection, though if you already have a phone line for dialup I hardly see the point - grin).

In any case, I've used the 50k setting, and the difference is extremely subtle. A few highs and lows get reproduced a little less faithfully, but it still beats my cell phone. I still prefer the somewhat crisper reproduction of the 90kbps setting, but if you need to save bandwidth, the other settings are worth exploring.

So a connection "rated" for 11 lines at 90k could theoretically support up to 19 or 20 at the 50k setting, and about 30 or so at the 30k setting.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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myrison
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks guys for the last few posts. Very helpful and exactly what I was looking for.

FYI Arthur_lw, my DSL (AT&T) did not send a tech out to me to test my new DSL. They just turned it on and said go. When I first turned it on, I was getting 300kbps downloads... It turned out to be a router error on their side. They adjusted the router in their central office and the speeds improved to the levels in my first post. I had to call them back again and they eventually got it right, now hovering around 5.5Mbps out of a rated 6.0.

Thanks all for the information.
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ex
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I dont know why Vonage continues to say 90 kbps is what you need, when in reality it is not. In a perfect world with nothing else hooked up to the TA and a great connection, yeah, but lets get real. Any customer who tests below 225-250 or so, especially with dsl or satellite, which I wish Vonage would tell people they can not get good quality with, causes so many problems. With pc's hooked up, other lines, etc, 90 is just not enough. And this comes directly from supervisors and managers on the tech level 2 floor. If you are under 200 at the very least, do not expect good quality from Vonage, even adjusting the bandwidth saver, and if you have other routers, pc's etc hooked up in your network you obviously need more bandwidth in the 300-400 range.
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tophtml
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Dec 06, 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think NateHoy said it best:

"Although Vonage recommends 90kbps per line, in both directions, remember that Vonage is using a codec for their "full" quality that really only consumes 64kbps, and even with a generous chunk for overhead you may not even approach 90kbps. Still, 90 is a really good recommendation to keep expectations reasonable - you always want a good factor for overhead."

The 90 kbps is per Vonage line not including the overhead required for other internet functions. He goes on to state, "you always want a good factor for overhead."
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myrison
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ex wrote:
I dont know why Vonage continues to say 90 kbps is what you need, when in reality it is not.


It's probably easier to sell with a 90kbps recommendation than 400. Wink Of course, that might lead to dissatisfaction for a lot of folks who actually expect that to work... but at that point you're in the door. (no different than most other sales strategies) Smile
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