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Post new topic   Reply to topic  Vonage® VoIP Forum - Vonage News, Reviews And Discussion » Vonage Forum Archive
Poll

Have you found Vonage violating thier published TOS
Yes
16%
 16%  [ 1 ]
No
83%
 83%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 6

Author Message
DKB
Vonage Forum Junior
Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: Sep 05, 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:48 am    Post subject: RESOLVED: TOS intact, billing system still questionable. Reply with quote Back to top

EDIT: Change Subject from {WARNING: Vonage charging disconnect fees violation of TOS}. See update posted below

Hey guys, I haven't posted much, but looks like I'm jumping ship. Had service since Sept 2006 and the whole bit with the "confidential" and "secret" SIP credentials finally pushed me over the top. I'm moving to Callcentric.

I did expect disconnection to be hard, but mercy! First off, they woulldn't give my my Admin password to my router. Now I have to solder down JTAG pins to reflash the FW manually.

Next bit of fun came with a final "bill". Remember now Vonage is a prepaid account. My final bill was for $20.21 worth of international calls. These "international calls" were from Houston TX to Cypress TX. Looks like Texas has finally succeeded from the union. Now it is it's own republic again. Since they haven't updated their rate chart, I'll fill you in on the rates to the Republic of Texas. $0.47 / min. It's cheaper to call Sydney than it is to call the newly established republic.

Now for the final rub! After 16 months of service, I still got dinged with the 39.99 disconnection fee. Now I read all that TOS crap whenever I sign on with a company I don't fully trust. Lets see what it says (http://www.vonage.com/features_terms_service.php):

Quote:
8.7) Disconnection Fee (Does Not Apply to Business Plus Customers).
You will be charged a disconnection fee of $39.99 per voice line if your service is disconnected, subject to state and local laws. However, if your subscription date is on or after February 1, 2007 and is disconnected after 2 years following your subscription date, the disconnection fee is waived. If your subscription date is on or before January 31, 2007, the disconnection fee is waived if your service is disconnected 1 year following your subscription date.


I had assumed that the "1 year" was an Earth year, but I suppose outsourcing has driven them off-planet (can't see how that saves money). So a bit of research leads me to believe they are using Martian years as their metric (687 days).

Man I knew Vonage was going down hill, but this is nuts! Glad I got out when I did, lost router, nutty fees and all. For the rest of you guys, make sure you get fully qualified definitions of the ambiguous words in the TOS like "year" and "international". Good luck to all, and wish me the same with my new no-name TelCo.

-Dan

_________________
Ask about my MPG
-=-
Donate to Team Texas in the Great Race 2008 MPG Challenge
Best commute = 14.3mi @ 114 MPG
Best tank = 759mi @ 80.7 MPG
Dan -11011011

Last edited by DKB on Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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DKB
Vonage Forum Junior
Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: Sep 05, 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject: Washington State is now in Africa Reply with quote Back to top

Talked to the CSR (1.5 hours). They claim that:

1) The receipt for a disconnection fee was sent on accident.
2) The $40 charge on my account is purely for international calls.
3) The international calls were not to to the Republic of Texas, but The Peoples Republic of Washington, located north of Seattle in (apparently) East Africa.
4) The Texas numbers were routed through Seattle (aka Africa) hince the charge.

The number in question was 253-397-xxxx (not to be confused with 011-253-397-xxxx). The calls in question did indeed (per my recolection) connect to an individual in Washington I know well. I was very surprised (as were they) to hear they moved to Africa.

To check for yourself which US States have relocated overseas, go to the Vonage number checker:
1) http://www.vonage.com/intplans_details.php
2) Click "Find Out Now" at the bottom of the page
3) Enter 253-397-xxxx (where xxxx is 1234 or some random number).

References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_code_253
http://www.countrycallingcodes.com/results.php?FromCode=United+States&ToCode=Djibouti
http://www.thedirectory.org/cgi-bin/phonedb/lookup1.cgi?qac=253&qp=397
http://www.ipkall.com

So it looks like Vonage is not violating their TOS, but instead sending out emails saying they are charging you 39.99 in disconnection fees, then charging you 39.99 in international callls instead.

Technically, bad service and buggy number databases is not a violation of TOS.

Sorry for crying wolf.

-Dan

_________________
Ask about my MPG
-=-
Donate to Team Texas in the Great Race 2008 MPG Challenge
Best commute = 14.3mi @ 114 MPG
Best tank = 759mi @ 80.7 MPG
Dan -11011011
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DKB
Vonage Forum Junior
Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: Sep 05, 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Update, got my refund as promised. Reply with quote Back to top

I checked and last night the last of the refund was applied back to my bank account. So Vonage did well by me in this regard.

I think I got my head around the problem. This is a problem inherent in 10 digit dialing and it's why Vonage suggests that it's customers only use 11 or 13 digit dialing in North America. Vonage billing software uses the same algorithm as the web page listed in the previous post. On the other hand the Dial Plan on their Motorola or D-Link ATA's don't. So what it means is that if you dial "253-397-xxxx" from your Vonage phone you will be CONNECTED to a Washington state resident, but BILLED for a call to East Africa.

So Vonage needs to change their Dial Plan (Digit Map) for all their ATAs to forbid 10 digit dialing, and require 11 or 13 digit dialing. Another alternative would be to rewrite their billing software to only charge international rates to US customers that dial 011+Number.

001-253-397-xxxx does not cause their billing software grief, neither does 1-253-397-xxxx. So the fix, is to force 11 digit dialing through their ATAs, or to get their ATAs to prepend 001 to all 10 digit calls. Both are easy enough to do with the right provisioning script.

-Dan

_________________
Ask about my MPG
-=-
Donate to Team Texas in the Great Race 2008 MPG Challenge
Best commute = 14.3mi @ 114 MPG
Best tank = 759mi @ 80.7 MPG
Dan -11011011
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