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Rneal73
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Structured Wiring/Vonage Question Reply with quote Back to top

I recently built a house and had Circuit City do structured wiring. I basically have two combo boxes that distributes network and cable. The network part has 8 RJ45 connectors and a 110 punch down style "feed" in the back.

At my old house I just disconnected the teleco from the box outside and connected "Phone1" on the PAP2 adapter into a phone jack and it all pretty much worked like a bus. I am not having the same luck with the CAT5 wiring and was looking for suggestions. The combo box is a Honeywell MDX88500 which from what I can tell is similar to a passive hub. I thought I could snip the end of an RJ11 cable and I connected the red/green wires to the blue pair and the black/yellow wires to the orange pair on the 110 punch but got no dial tone when I plugged a phone into an outlet. Am I doing something wrong or will it not work with a patch panel/hub with a 110 punch down because two wire pairs are not connected?

Thanks,
Rob
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Steve48
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

What you're doing should work. I assume that you've checked the Vonage system and it's working. How about the house wiring? Has it ever been successfully used with a land line? If not, some connections may be missing on the punch down block. I would start by doing a good visual inspection. If that doesn't give any results, then make sure that there are no landlines connected and plug the Vonage box into a wall jack the way you did at the old house. If that works, then it would indicate that the connections to tie all of the house jacks together have been made.

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Steve Gray
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Rneal73
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes the phone is working. Coax cable connected to the cable modem, modem to router, PAP2 to router, phone to PAP2. Get dial tone and can make and receive calls.

I am just trying to work out the limitation of having the phone right next to the PAP2. My distribution panel is not like a traditional 66 punch down. There is one 110 punch down in the back that I guess would be synonymous with an uplink port on a router. The front of the panel has female RJ45 connections where the CAT5 cable plugs into with the other ends running to the various rooms in the house and terminating to a connector that will accept RJ45 or RJ11 connections.

It looks like the cable runs conform to 568A specification and when I connected the phone cable from the "Phone1" to the 110 punch down I get no dial tone. On the 110 punch the green and brown terminals are empty because the telephone cable is only two pair, so not sure if that matters. I basically did green = white/blue, red = blue/white, black = white/orange and yellow = orange/white. I even reversed the blue wires and it made no difference. I will try it again and maybe I will try connecting the phone directly into the panel eliminating a possible defective cable run...
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Steve48
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You've got the color codes right and reversing the blue wires shouldn't cause this problem. Can you confirm that all the jacks are, in fact, getting connected together so that if you have service on one you have it on all?

You know that you have individual CAT5s coming from each room jack, and that they're getting plugged into the panel using RJ45s, but what is happening inside the panel or at the punch block? Are they all getting paralleled?

Try this. Get a simple RJ11 Y-splitter. Pull one of the CAT5s from the panel and plug it into the splitter. Run another line from the splitter into the panel, and another to the phone 1 port on the Vonage box. This should give you service to the room served by that CAT5 cable. The big question is whether it also gives you service to every other room. It should if the CAT5s are getting paralleled.

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Rneal73
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, I will try that. Hopefully the local Home Depot or Wal-Mart will have an RJ11/RJ45 splitter. I have an RJ11 splitter at the house but no good because the cable runs have RJ45 male ends.

Let me ask another question kind of in a different direction - granted I would like to get this to work so I feel like I am getting some use out of the patch panel and not just the RG6 coax module - but I am getting a D-Link 16-port auto-sensing switch. Would I be able to plug my router, all the CAT5 runs, the PAP2 and Phone1 back into the switch as well and the switch would know how to handle the traffic and send the Voip data to the phones?
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Steve48
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Rneal73 wrote:
Ok, I will try that. Hopefully the local Home Depot or Wal-Mart will have an RJ11/RJ45 splitter. I have an RJ11 splitter at the house but no good because the cable runs have RJ45 male ends.


One other thing. With the connections that you already tried, are you absolutely sure that it didn't actually work at one of the room jacks?

Quote:
Let me ask another question kind of in a different direction - granted I would like to get this to work so I feel like I am getting some use out of the patch panel and not just the RG6 coax module - but I am getting a D-Link 16-port auto-sensing switch. Would I be able to plug my router, all the CAT5 runs, the PAP2 and Phone1 back into the switch as well and the switch would know how to handle the traffic and send the Voip data to the phones?


I'm not familiar with the switch to which you refer, but I doubt it very much. There really isn't any "VoIP data" going to the phones, you know. The phone 1 output of the PAP2 is as nearly identical to traditional plain old telephone service as they can make it. I doubt that a switch designed to handle digital data would know what to do with it.

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Rneal73
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I have tried a second jack into the same panel and it did not work either. I can certainly try others but I think I am going to encounter the same result. Which leads me to believe I have not terminated the cable from Phone1 to the 110 punch down well enough, but I used a punch-down tool and it looks about as clean as I can get it OR it is not running in parallel like you had mentioned. What does that mean exactly?

The modules description is a "Combo 8x8 Passive Coax/Phone Distribution Module" that can distribute 4 lines to eight locations which sounds like it is intended to be used with POTS from the local telecos.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

When I say "running in parallel", I mean that all the blue wires from different pairs are connected together, and all the blue-white are connected together, and so on. That way, whatever signal is on one of the pairs is also on all the other pairs of the same color, which is what you want in an in-house set of telephone jacks.

In traditional house wiring, you get this by "daisy chaining". That is, you run a line from the phone service to one jack, and then from there to another jack, and from there to another, and so on. With structured wiring, you bring separate cables from each jack to a central point. Then you connect the like colors together there. The advantage is flexibility. If you decide at some time that you don't want one room to get the phone service, you disconnect its pairs at the central point. Or you may decide that you want the line that is line 1 everywhere else in the house to be line 2 in your home office. You do that by making the appropriate connections at the central point.

What you need to find out is whether the like colors all get connected together in your structured wiring installation. The installer could easily argue that he didn't, and shouldn't, do that until you decide exactly how you want your telephones configured for each room.

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Rneal73
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you for your help, Steve. With some persistence I finally got it working. Since I was having problems with all the CAT5 runs terminating with an RJ45 connector and the PAP2 having the Phone 1 as an RJ11, I took the phone 1 connection, plugged it into the wall jack (they conventiently accept RJ45 or RJ11) and the associated Cat5 run I plugged into a coupler with the other end connected to one of the runs to another room in the house. It worked! So then I instead plugged a patch cable into the coupler and ran it back into the distribution panel along with run from the room I used to test and the phone still worked. This essentially isolated the wiring to the 110 punch as the issue from previous nights. So I cleaned up the cable I was using to the 110 punch and crimped an RJ45 end onto it (now basically having a cable with RJ11 to connect to the PAP2 and the RJ45 to connect to the panel) brought the PAP2 to the distribution panel & used my newly created cable and everything worked. Even ran another patch cable to the other panel (Circuit City installed two) and the phone works in rooms connected to the other panel. I am stoked I got it working.

Thanks for helping out so I was not chasing red herrings.

Rob
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well done! Nothing like a little hands on with your own system to make you feel good about using it in the future.

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