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melodywhr
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Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

it is my understanding that the authors of the Vonage TOS intended the limits of residential services to define a discernable line between residential and commercial use. if something "smells rotten in denmark", then by all means they should investigate but when they advertise their advanced call forwarding features as a way for people to stay connected, to never miss a call and then they tell their customers that they can't use it because they're using it too much... there is a serious problem here. i actually got an email from the usage department today saying outright that their SimulRing feature goes against the residential TOS.

it's one thing if what is outlined in the terms of service is being violated but when what they're advertising is a violation of the TOS... here's the link that says if you subscribe to an unlimited plan, you can use SimulRing for free:

http://vonage.com/features.php?feature=call_forwarding
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rebus
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Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 448
Location: Tampa Bay

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Vonage "Residental Use" Terms of service Reply with quote Back to top

spdickey wrote:
Since your comment above did not contain information about who the "most reputable competitors" were I looked up a few of the largest Voip operators and found the following.

By reputable, I was talking about the deep-pockets big-name telcos like Verizon, Qwest, AT&T, etc. (all of whom specify 5000 minutes as the boundary) with their own multi-billion dollar networks, armies of attorneys, etc. Vonage, for example, may be king of consumer Voip at the present time, but it's still so small that Ma Bell or any of her ILEC cronies could buy Vonage out with what's in their Petty Cash jars.
 
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rebus
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Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 448
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

melodywhr wrote:
i actually got an email from the usage department today saying outright that their SimulRing feature goes against the residential TOS.

I'd like to see that email- can you post it here? If what you're saying is actually true, it begs the question why Vonage makes that feature available at all, if it's forbidden. Doesn't add up.

melodywhr wrote:

it's one thing if what is outlined in the terms of service is being violated but when what they're advertising is a violation of the TOS... here's the link that says if you subscribe to an unlimited plan, you can use SimulRing for free:

http://vonage.com/features.php?feature=call_forwarding


They also claim to be the only company offering Simul-Ring. Quoting from the link you posted: "Vonage is the only company that offers you Enhanced Call Forwarding featuring Simul-Ring®. This Vonage exclusive feature simultaneously rings...."

Ummmm... not true. I have this same feature on the new line I just got with a competitor. (...ahem...)
 
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melodywhr
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Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:

-----Original Message-----
From: usagealert@care.vonage.com [mailto:usagealert@care.vonage.com]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:02 AM
To: melodywhr
Subject: [vonage.com #13255797] Vonage Usage ALERT! IMMEDIATE RESPONSE REQUIRED. Account Number: ##########

Dear "melodywhr",

In regards to your issue with simulring, whether the account is used for residential use or for business use, simulring is a branch of call forwarding and continuous call forwarding is against our Term of Service under 2.2 Residential Use of Service and Device.

If you have any further questions please reply to this ticket/email.

Sincerely,
Vonage Usage Department


I did remove my personal information from this email, but the body is intact.
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pdhenry
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Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Vonage isn't saying that Simulring is against TOS; they're saying that "continuous or excessive" use of call forwarding (or Simulring by their extension) is against TOS.

I suspect that you may be more than an occasional user of Simulring. Is it your primary means of using Vonage?
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packetloss
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Joined: Aug 26, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

2 hours a day is not a lot of usage. If someone is home all day or even most of the day it's pretty easy to exceed this. If you have kids using the phone too, then it gets even easier.

Perhaps they should differentiate between local calls and long distance as well as quantity of different numbers being called for this determination. That would probably cover about 95% of legitimate residential usage. I would think most residential users that exceed this limit, would be doing so to the same 50 or so numbers, most of which would be local or semi local calls.
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galion
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Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 233
Location: Midwest USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If I can't keep Simulring active then why have it? Personally I don't use it. But it sounds silly. When you look at their description it sounds like a great benefit for a family. IMHO, if they consider keeping Simulring active a problem then they should get rid of it. Don't brag about what you really don't want to offer.

I also hate the use of "unlimited" not meaning unlimited. It isn't just in the Voip services either, but the services should provide better definitions in their ToS. Of course they are trying to leave it open ended to prevent problems with those people who look for loop holes. And, if they put "5000 minutes" in their ToS I am sure somebody would start some false claim issue. It is easier for a company to jumble up the legal wording than to just lay it on the line.

I always wondered what would happen if you stayed all day with your family at the "all you can eat" buffet. I remember a parody on The Simpsons.

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melodywhr
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Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

pdhenry wrote:
Vonage isn't saying that Simulring is against TOS; they're saying that "continuous or excessive" use of call forwarding (or Simulring by their extension) is against TOS.

I suspect that you may be more than an occasional user of Simulring. Is it your primary means of using Vonage?


nope. but here's the rub: i pay for a virtual number so it's a local call for my fiancee to call me from england and when i'm not at home, we're taking advantage of that using call forwarding. but whether i'm using simulring or basic call forwarding, it's all the same because whether it rings at both lines or forwards after ten rings, it doesn't count as a forwarded call unless i pick it up on my cell phone. i think those people in the usage department have no idea how their technology and services work. and they think they can bully their customers, they've got another thing coming.
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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If all you want is a permanent SimulRing style feature, you may want to consider something like GrandCentral ( www.grandcentral.com ).

They issue you a phone number, people call it, and it will ring as many phones as you want (it'll even allow you to set up rules based on who is calling, so you can route calls intelligently to the correct phone). If the "wrong" person answers, they transfer the call back to the GrandCentral ring group by pressing the "*" key and it starts ringing all the phones again.

DISCLAIMER: During the trial period, GrandCentral (now owned by Google) is offering all of the services free. No word on charges once the beta is over. Caveat emptor.

_________________
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melodywhr
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Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

that's fantastic news... now they just need to go international.
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†AK and HI residents pay $29.95 shipping. ††Limited time offer. Valid for residents of the United States (&DC), 18 years or older, who open new accounts. Offer good while supplies last and only on new account activations. One kit per account/household. Offer cannot be combined with any other discounts, promotions or plans and is not applicable to past purchases. Good while supplies last. Allow up to 2 weeks for shipping. Other restrictions may apply.

1Unlimited calling and other services for all residential plans are based on normal residential, personal, non-commercial use. A combination of factors is used to determine abnormal use, including but not limited to: the number of unique numbers called, calls forwarded, minutes used and other factors. Subject to our Reasonable Use Policy and Terms of Service.

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