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miatch
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Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:22 am    Post subject: Verizon Patent Lawsuit - Questions Answered Reply with quote Back to top

HI EVERYONE.. regarding this lawsuit, i called Vonage and inquired about this patent lawsuit that was filed by verizon, a customer care agent told me and i quote (i was able to record what the agent told me, so i got it word for word):

".. the first time that Vonage learned that verizon was asserting patent infrigment was when verizon served us with its lawsuit in june 2006, asserting 7 patents. we do not believe that Vonage infringes any of the patents, and verizon already has dropped 2 of the patents from its lawsuit. (at this point, customer care rep assured me that they didn't copy anything from verizon) Vonage developed its system using existing, generally available Voip technology offered by well known technology companies like CISCO. when Vonage started over 4 years ago, verizon did not even offer its own Voip service to consumers. Verizon is losing market share to numerous competitors, including the cable companies, and is using the courts to stifle competition. Vonage is a growing company w/ over 2.2 million customers and we intend to be offering our industry leading Voip service for years to come.."


and they also gave me a site that i can visit:

http://pr.vonage.com/press.cfm
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Storm_Law
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: yes but............. Reply with quote Back to top

They lost the case!

They can say what they will but the lost. Now we will have to see what happens on appeal. Hopefully the judge will stay the injunction pending an appeal so that thousands of people are not affected.
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brian188
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Posts: 203

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

They lost the case, and today an injunction was put in place.

Verizon has made a mistake here though. When the news of the injunction gets out and certainly when the injunction is solidified and enforced. All of Vonage's customers will be jumping ship... and where will they go? Not likely to Verizon. Who has one of the WORST customer satisfaction indexes (in the Voip world). They will go to their Cable company. But of course, ViaTalk, SunRocket, etc. are drooling right now. Most of them are better than Vonage anyway so good for them...

It's been a fun ride, but the Vonage Van will soon be a rusted memory in someone's back yard.
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Storm_Law
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Joined: Jul 18, 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Chatsworth, CA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:58 am    Post subject: how do we know.......... Reply with quote Back to top

How do we know that the other Voice over IP carriers are not also infringing on patents?

Hopefully Vonage will do the right thing and settle the case and license the patents!

All I know is that if I lose my long time phone number I am going to be pissed off.
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galion
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Posts: 233
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I wouldn't sweat or jump ship yet. Verizon is going after Vonage because Vonage is the largest target for them to set an example to others. I left Verizon because (1) they caused me trouble 17 years ago as a GTE monopoly and I moved (2) they caused me headaches and cost me lots of money as a wireless provider as I trusted them again and (3) they caused me excessive outages as a POTS customer recently. As such I left Verizon and will never return. If they want their business back they need to learn how to work with people.

I still do not have the full scope of the patents involved in my hands. But I have said it before and I will say it again. If they are going after Voip, then I think they are affecting their "brothers and sisters." Unless Verizon and AT&T band together I think AT&T won't be happy. The cable companies won't stop. Vonage will find a technical work around, even if it is equipment they get through another source. And all of the VoIPs will use what Vonage discovers.

Now, as to this offbeat judge, we will find out if he has people in his best interest or if a big company has his attention. In my opinion Verizon lost customers and will lose customers because they have become an overbearing oversized company, not because some Voip uses some technology. I believe if Vonage can come on the scene and ruin Verizon this quickly then Verizon had serious problems from the beginning.

In my opinion Verizon should change course or, I hope this thing backfires on them like I think it will. They sealed their fate with me.

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Storm_Law
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Joined: Jul 18, 2006
Posts: 113
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:07 am    Post subject: I feel the same way but. Reply with quote Back to top

Verizon also screwed me too. But if they own the patent's then they own them!

I guess we will see what happens in the next two weeks. I hope somebody could get the text of the lawsuit so we can see what is being claimed.
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jcovert
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: I feel the same way but. Reply with quote Back to top

Storm_Law wrote:
Hopefully Vonage will do the right thing and settle the case and license the patents!


Verizon explicitly does not want to license the patents, and the judge, when granting Verizon's request for the injunction, agreed that having Vonage pay Verizon for use of the patents (in the judge's words) "will not stop erosion of [Verizon's] customer base."

However, as Vonage says, they are simply using technology that is readily available from hardware and software vendors. For example, according to the news releases, one of the violations is "Call Waiting". I'm an expert on SIP and on Voip devices such as some of the ATAs that Vonage uses. In the protocols that Vonage uses, there is NOTHING that explicitly implements Call Waiting. I use Cisco ATA 186s directly on the Open Source Asterisk PBX (see my dCAP certification below, which certifies that I know what I'm talking about), and I know that Call Waiting is implemented PURELY in the ATA. This means that EVERY Voip provider is doing the same thing for Call Waiting. I have Call Waiting in my ATAs connected to the Open Source PBX with Cisco ATAs. If there is a Verizon patent here, who is violating it? Me? Cisco? The authors of the open source software Asterisk PBX because they haven't written extra code PREVENTING call waiting from working?

The problem here is the patent system in the United States, where it's possible to get patents issued for completely obvious solutions. Our patent system is severely broken.

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cid92
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Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Here are the patents mentioned in the suit:

http://www.patentmonkey.com/PM/PatentID/6430275.aspx

http://www.patentmonkey.com/PM/PatentID/6137869.aspx

http://www.patentmonkey.com/PM/PatentID/6104711.aspx

http://www.patentmonkey.com/PM/PatentID/6282574.aspx

http://www.patentmonkey.com/PM/PatentID/6298062.aspx

http://www.patentmonkey.com/PM/PatentID/6128304.aspx

Copy of the suit is here:

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/z/200606/Complai.pdf

After looking over these with a quick eye, a lot of this is technology built on top of existing technology and in almost all cases, impact EVERY single company that is currently offering Voip. This includes tha manfacturers of the devices from Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, and Cisco plus all the rest of them.

Sounds more like Verizon is pissed for losing business - and what business wouldn't be? Great way to drive business away though. We have Verizon for cell service and our contract just came up. I am now searching other providers since I do not want to give Verizon my business. Voip patents are numerous and there have already been several suits brought up and settled to date. This is the best way to take an emerging technology and suffocate it till it dies.

I wonder if Verizon has infringed on any of the other nearly 1500 Voip patents?

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jcovert
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Posts: 153

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Of those seven patents, the jury found that only the following three were infringed upon:

6,104,711
6,282,574
6,359,880

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cid92
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

jcovert wrote:
Of those seven patents, the jury found that only the following three were infringed upon:

6,104,711
6,282,574
6,359,880


711 & 574 - Based off the abstracts for both patents, the "inventors" created what could be called DNS for phone systems.

880 - Looks like a gateway setup for wireless Voip.

I can see the 880 patent being something original but this means every company offering wireless Voip (mainly Skype) should have a lawsuit filed against them ASAP unless they have paid Verizon for the patent usage. Same goes for all other Voip providers for patents 711 and 574 since they help control where your calls go on a digital/analog network. Without that, the calls might not get routed properly so everyone needs to bow down to Verizon and pay up.

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