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warpwiz
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Is Vonage done for Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="Bleep"]
Quote:
Nothing will prevent continued erosion of the client base of the plaintiff. Twisted Evil


That's the crux of it here. Verizon is acting like Ma Bell (DUH) in trying to monopolize. The problem is that the governmental bodies that helped crack open the AT&T monopoly are now toothless lapdogs to the telecom industry. Thus, the Verizon's and "new" AT&T's will be relatively free to assassinate upstarts using the legal system as their battering ram - they'll be able to bleed potential competitors to death with legal fees.

Someone pointed out that if Vonage is guilty, they must all be using patented technology somewhere (perhaps Verizon patented having salt on the tables in company cafeterias..

Allowed to happen, only the lawyers win... again. Cry
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jcovert
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Is Vonage done for Reply with quote Back to top

warpwiz wrote:
Someone pointed out that if Vonage is guilty, [ITSPs] must all be using patented technology somewhere


That was me, a few replies back, as well as in replies in a topic which (because of topic duplication) is now locked. In that topic, "Bleep" had provided details of the patent claims that the jury found to have been infringed upon. I analyzed those claims with respect to open Voip standards and replied in the replies beginning at http://www.vonage-forum.com/sutra105260.html and continuing until the end of that topic.

Basically, the infringed claims in two of the patents broadly cover the technology used by an Open Internet standard called ENUM (RFC 3761), in which you look up the phone number in a DNS server and the DNS server, using standardized records, returns the address to which to send calls. For example, if you were calling 1-800-890-9999 you reverse the digits and include the name of the server, thus: 9.9.9.9.0.9.8.0.0.8.1.e164.org and send a request for NAPTR records. These records return one or more gateways or other points on the internet to reach these numbers. Continuing this example:

Code:
$ host -tnaptr 9.9.9.9.0.9.8.0.0.8.1.e164.org
9.9.9.9.0.9.8.0.0.8.1.e164.org NAPTR 200 10 "u" "E2U+SIP" "!^\\+1800(.*)$!sip:16
41641800\\1@sip.tollfreegateway.com!" .
9.9.9.9.0.9.8.0.0.8.1.e164.org NAPTR 200 10 "u" "E2U+SIP" "!^\\+1800(.*)$!sip:18
00\\1@tf.voipmich.com!" .


The above has nothing to do with Vonage; I've queried here a public database used by thousands of ITSPs all over the world to deliver traffic to U.S. 800 numbers. The ENUM standard defines an official database at e164.arpa (which is controlled by national telecommunications authorities) and allows for any number of additional public or private databases using anything other than e164.arpa at the end. The one at e164.org is one such public database, which you can read about at http://www.e164.org/

The third patent the jury found that Vonage infringed upon is equally broad. It covers the use of any Voip protocol in which a wireless enabled phone registers itself as being available from a local wireless system, such as a WiFi hotspot or a home or office private WiFi network. Vonage WiFi phones, all other WiFi SIP phones, and even a laptop with a softphone client contacting ANY ITSP (including Vonage, Skype, or even any home or business Asterisk or other Voip PBX) do exactly what the claims of this patent "invent". Anyone who has bought ANY WiFi SIP phone is in infringement of this patent (if it really is valid), regardless of who their ITSP is.

And all of this is "patently" ridiculous, and mark my words will finally bring about needed change in the completely broken U.S. patent system.

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warpwiz
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Is Vonage done for Reply with quote Back to top

I sincerely hope you are correct.

jcovert wrote:
warpwiz wrote:
Someone pointed out that if Vonage is guilty, [ITSPs] must all be using patented technology somewhere


And all of this is "patently" ridiculous, and mark my words will finally bring about needed change in the completely broken U.S. patent system.
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Dbl_Tap
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Joined: Mar 25, 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I've gotta say I'm very concerned right now. Two months ago I switched my home line and my business lines to Vonage. I can not afford downtime at all on my business line as I'm in the service industry and if a new customer doesn't get through on the first call they go to the next competitor on the list. This happens more often than I'd like as it is with Vonage's little glitches and service problems. A week or two of problems is unacceptable even if they do stay in business.

I don't want to have sunshine blown up my backside on the hopes of stemming the exodus of people leaving Vonage. As it is now they are still actively soliciting new customers and they don't know what the courts are going to do.
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Storm_Law
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:13 pm    Post subject: I am staying for now but........ Reply with quote Back to top

I am going to stay with Vonage for now, but I am going to see about getting my main phone number ported back to my other line. If Vonage were to go out of business tomorrow, no one would know how to get a hold of me. I have literally handed out thousands of business cards over the years. Can you imagine just losing your number?

The reason I ported my number over to Vonage was so that the number would follow me no matter where I moved. I am very concerned as well!
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TomCat
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: The Trouble With Vonage Reply with quote Back to top

Like many of you Vonage subscribers, I was (am) a bit concerned about the court order against Vonage and how that might affect service. My biggest concern has been that Vonage has not been pro-active with their PR, that is they have not sent any messages to their customers directly explaining the situation and generally calming any fears about possible interruption in service.

I did call Vonage, but all I got was a young overseas voice that read a prepared statement that was totally meaningless and without substance. I love my Vonage service, but like others I have spoken with, we don't want to wake up one day to no service without notice. Hey Vonage! Speak to us!

TC
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Storm_Law
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: ya but. Reply with quote Back to top

I do not think there is anything Vonage can really do now but to leave it in the hands of the attorney's. They have two weeks to convince the judge to set stay the injunction pending an appeal. If that falls through then they will have to convince an appellate Court to stay the injunction pending an appeal. If that falls through then we are all SOL.

Vonage's future unless they can come up with a workaround is in the hands of a Judge at this point.
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Dbl_Tap
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

And we all know how intelligent judges are. Just hope the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals isn't involved at a later date Smile
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Storm_Law
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If they were in the 9th Circuit they would have a better chance of winning!

The case is out of DC I believe.
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navydavy2001
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Storm_Law wrote:
If they were in the 9th Circuit they would have a better chance of winning!

The case is out of DC I believe.


I think it's actually Alexandria, VA. (DC burbs, but VA)

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