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Sammy00 Posted:
Has anyone setup a
W52p phone for
vonage? I have
a W52p with two
wireless handsets,
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James44 Posted:
Hi, I am
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provider in
Canada. they
should offer
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James44 Posted:
Which network
connection do you
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jjatsk Posted:
We are renting a
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On Jul 09, 2016 at 12:00:54

Pman Posted:
Hello, While
Vonage has been a
great service over
the years, it is
time to part
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On Jul 05, 2016 at 09:12:07

jbugz67 Posted:
We recently
purchased 5
Polycom VVX 300
phones from
Vonage, and have
regretted
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Nothing but problems with VVX300
On Apr 15, 2016 at 14:58:07

RichardPi Posted:
Hello, does
anybody recollect
how to get into
wifi password from
diggings router?
...

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Topic:
How to arrive at wifi password?
On Mar 31, 2016 at 02:39:07

RichardPi Posted:
Hello, does
anybody know how
to get into wifi
watchword from
home router?
...

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Topic:
How to be noised abroad wifi password?
On Mar 30, 2016 at 18:48:05

achow26 Posted:
BrettaMan, I am
having the same
problem. I do not
have the loopback
plug. I tried
...

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Topic:
Vonage issue with USTec UX-226
On Feb 16, 2016 at 14:13:37

alicesmith Posted:
I have used the
PBX phone system
in my new office.
I was very
confused about
phone
...

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jcovert
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Posts: 153

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I have been looking all over the net for the actual patent numbers involved in the suit (and specifically the three that the jury claimed were actually infringed upon).

All I can find is speculation. Some of the patents in the speculation are amazing. For example, Verizon claims to have patented looking up a phone number in DNS, which is the basic idea of RFC 3716 (the ENUM system).

The bottom line here is that the U.S. patent system is out-of-control.

But I still would like to have the ACTUAL (not speculation) patent numbers from the suit.

Thanks.

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Lucky8
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I wonder how much lower is VG stock is going to get. Thinking bout getting some shares.
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stardust
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

forgive my ignorance regarding these matters but if those were merely speculations - then why does Vonage have to pay Verizon for those patented features?
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jcovert
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm sure they jury knows the details of the patents. But none of the published articles, and none of the discussions in various forums, has contained anything but speculation on which of Verizon's patents are actually involved.

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galion
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The first question would be the technical understanding of the jury. Maybe they understood, maybe they didn't. The second question would be the distance the judge opened the definition of the patents involved. I had a lawyer friend tell me once that in a lawsuit it usually isn't whether you are right or wrong but how good a salesman you have working for you. In other words, Verizon had nothing to lose other than some cash for good salesmen . . . er, lawyers. So the lawsuit was well worth the gamble. It is is in their best interest to keep it vague as possible.

For an example, let's look at Verizon's own press statement:

Quote:
ARLINGTON, VA - Jurors in a patent infringement case before the U.S. District Court for the Virginia Eastern District Thursday ( March 8 ) ruled that Voip service provider Vonage Holdings Corp. infringed three U.S. patents held by Verizon. The following statement should be attributed to John Thorne, Verizon senior vice president and deputy general counsel:

"A jury today found that Vonage Holdings Corp. has infringed three United States patents awarded to Verizon covering methods of offering commercial-quality Voip services, including wireless access to Voip.

"Patents encourage and protect innovations that benefit consumers, create jobs and keep the economy growing. Verizon's innovations are central to its strategy of building the best communications networks in the world.

"We are proud of our inventors and pleased the jury stood up for the legal protections they deserve."


Huh? First they only point to a voice quality and wireless patent. Big deal, unless the judge opened up the definition. Second they do not mention that they didn't get what they wanted. Why? Because it was a shopping, or as we like to say, fishing expedition. Proud of their inventors? They spun off a large chunck of the GTE network crew to let them go bankrupt and get bought by Level 3.

I'm thinking about taking my neighbor to court because I don't like the color of his house (just kidding). But, it would be a roll of the dice. Too bad I don't have a government granted oligopoly to fund a suit.

I don't think Verizon was that serious about VoiceWing. A miscalculation shown by their lack of advertising and original overpricing. Now that they have seen a third party threat they drop the price on VoiceWing and then go after the one thing that they could have as an easy target. Verizon should step up to the plate and show the American public the patents. Time to lay it out on the table and let us see the facts.

Thank God the government didn't get too deeply into the fight between Tesla and Edison or we might all be using oil lamps. Thankfully Tesla had a friend in Westinghouse or we would be paying through the nose for electricity. Wait . . . we are paying through the nose. How did the folks on Hee Haw sing it? Gloom, despair, and agony on me. Sad

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jcovert
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

[Apparently the admins didn't like the post I was originally replying to making light of this situation. I pointed out that contrary to the claims in the deleted reply, maybe Verizon patented something as obvious as pouring water into a pan and putting it on the stove to boil.]

One of my other Voip providers may have shut themselves down simply because they got skeered:
Quote:

Due to recent legal activity against some phone companies and other operators on Voip terminated calls, <name omitted>, Inc. will be suspending tollfree termination immediately, and will be discontinuing Voip terminated DID service in the near future. We are not now nor have we been named previously in any lawsuit.

On the other hand, this may have had something to do with a separate issue involving the amount of money one carrier pays to another for accepting and delivering traffic.

As far as I can tell, all Voip connections between the Internet and the Public Telephone network would be subject to this patent infringement claim.

We'll need to wait and see whether the patent holds up under appeal. Pulver media is presenting a webinar on the issues Thursday afternoon, which I am attending at the moment.

The infringed patents are:
6,104,711
6,282,574
6,359,880

not infringed:
6,137,869
6,430,275

An appeal could take at least a year.

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galion
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Let’s take a deeper dive into Verizon and their view of Vonage. In a 2004 MCI Annual Report found on the Verizon website at http://investor.verizon.com/financial/quarterly/pdf/04MCI_AR.pdf you find Vonage clearly listed as the only Voip threat. In the words of MCI,
Quote:
We face substantial competition that has resulted in pricing pressures and reduced revenues
The article then lists those competitors and for Voip they say,
Quote:
Voip providers, such as Vonage.
This article discusses the proposed merger of Verizon and MCI and the possible roadblocks in such a merger. In 2004 they already recognized Vonage as a threat. Where was the lawsuit?

Looking deeper into Verizon’s website we find more mentions of a sole Voip competitor. The link http://investor.verizon.com/profile/industry/industry_002.aspx seems to discuss a case study of the United States communications markets and the threats to Verizon. Verizon clearly recognizes a large potential for income as seen here:
Quote:
In 2006, analyst estimates indicate that the U.S. telecommunications market will be approximately $568 billion in revenues and will rise to approximately $720B by 2011.
They tout their strength by stating,
Quote:
A bellwether for the industry (added to the Dow Jones Industrial Average in 2004), Verizon has a nationwide presence in wireline and wireless markets, with approximately 100 million Americans connecting to a Verizon network daily.


In further discussion they recognize the significance of Voip,
Quote:
Another growth market, which holds the promise for continued expansion well beyond 2006, has been wireline broadband, which for Verizon includes both DSL and FiOS services.
Notice no mention of broadband.

But then let’s look at what Verizon put in their filing against Vonage: In the filing, Verizon noted that Vonage has gained 1.1 million new customers in the last 15 months,
Quote:
many of whom are Verizon's former customers.
It is quite evident that Verizon has singled out Vonage as a sole threat. In 2006 Verizon claimed $23.3 billion in revenue with $8.3 billion from wireline services and $9.9 billion from wireless.

So now I have thrown out a bunch of numbers, factual according to Verizon’s own website. But looking at those number it is clear that Verizon holds less than 10% of the telecommunications market. While Vonage may have gained less than 1% of Verizon’s total customer base in one year, there is no guarantee that all of these customers came from Verizon. In fact it is clearly possible that less than 10% of the 1% came from Verizon since Verizon only holds 10% of the entire market. If it were true that the entire Vonage customer base grew from purely Verizon customers, then one should assume something is seriously wrong at Verizon.

Sounds like there is no basis for Verizon’s paranoia of Vonage. It could be true. Is Verizon really worried about a patent? For that analysis let’s look at another article on Verizon’s website and an article discussing the history of Verizon http://investor.verizon.com/profile/history/pdf/verizonhistory.pdf . Here we learn about GTE, the largest independent telephone company. From the article we learn,
Quote:
The independent telephone industry originated in 1893, when Alexander Graham Bell’s original patents expired. In the early years of this industry, customers of independent telephone companies could only call other customers served by the same company.
Sound familiar? Albeit legal at the time, Verizon is stating their entire business started by bootstrapping off someone else’s patent. Lucky for GTE that some judge didn’t come around expanding Alexander Graham Bell’s patent. It is interesting to read the entire article as it discusses how GTE gained its technological advantage through acquisitions of other companies. Today Verizon is using their own labs to focus on fiber. You can see their plan here: http://investor.verizon.com/profile/pdf/wireline_tech_overview.pdf.

Now, finally we must look at where Verizon speaks with forked tongue. Check out this article: http://investor.verizon.com/shareowner/pdf/vantage04.pdf. Here we find Verizon claiming government should stay out of the competition.
Quote:
Seidenberg added that the policy should be based on three principles that govern other technology companies, including cable and wireless companies:
• Provide stability and uniformity across the industry and across the nation;
• Be free of economic regulation and permit markets to determine prices;
• Apply common rules for enforcement, technical standards and public safety where they are needed.


What is Verizon worried about? If their entire future is based on fiber, which they consider superior, then Vonage should not be a problem. Let’s hope we aren’t looking at an attempt to stifle a very small competitor. Or is it that small?

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RPrado
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm hearing, from Comcast, that Vonage is going BYE BYE in 5 months. I already have Vonage, love it, but I'm moving and Comcast is trying to push their internet phone in a promotion on me. I don't want it, but if Vonage is going away, I guess I have no other choice.


Vonage staying or going?
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sheezhot
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Scenario: A Comcast employee tells you Vonage (a competitor) is going BYE BYE...would you believe that?


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melisam78
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!! Lol
This would be like McDonalds showing a commercial that wendys has had 1500 cases of food poisening and people shouldn't eat there because of it. I wouldn't beleive it. LOL

My cable company (who I have cable, dvr and net service through) gave me a HUGE problem after I moved... which is why I had to shut my Vonage off the first time. Eventually I got them out here to run all the lines and got my cable service back. they tried to get me to sign up for their phone which is $29.99 a month for unlimited local and 60 minutes of long distance, voice mail, caller id etc..., that does not include the approximate $18 in taxes!! And, for what I'm paying Vonage right now, they wanted $39.99 plus about $20 in taxes (taxes go up the more money the plan, wierd!!)


So, I told htme I was going back to Vonage as soon as my net was back on. They were furious!! They said they didn't understand why I would want to stay with a company that "stole" from their competitors and that will soon be put out of business and prosecuted for their actions. I told them that Vonage didn't "steal" anything from anyone, and that verizon would be lucky if they got half of what they were suing for! LOL

its sickening how these companies (verizon) try to demolish their competition rather than owning up to the definition of "competition". You think in order to keep their customers they would offer better deals or lower prices, but no, they want to sue people. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


sheezhot wrote:
Scenario: A Comcast employee tells you Vonage (a competitor) is going BYE BYE...would you believe that?


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