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0Voltage
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Any Phone Adapters That Can Be Put *Before* a Router? Reply with quote Back to top

Are there any available Phone Adapters that can be connected before a router instead of passing through a router?

The D-Link VTA and Linksys PAP2 look like they only have an "Internet" port for plugging into an available router (switch) port - not any kind of passthrough port like some other (non-Vonage) PA products have so they can come first.

I would like to have a PA that sits first so that it doesn't have to pass through the router. This way I don't have to worry about enabling port forwarding to insure performance.

I have tried the D-Link VWR and Linksys WRTP54G products, but both have given me serious problems. I'm guessing my only option is to go back to my Linksys WRT54GS which never - ever - failed and use a Vonage device just for the phone lines. I cannot use port forwarding (or the DMZ) for a PA, however, because of certain product testing I do.

Any ideas?
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Steve48
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You're right about the D-link VTA and the PAP2. They are adapters only. The Motorola VT2442 and VT2142 are are router/adapters that can be put ahead of another router. However, none of the Vonage router adapters (the VT's, the WRTP54G, the RTP300, the VT1005, etc?) have been renowned for being robust routers. They'll do what you want if your internet use is light. Otherwise they may let you down.

I like your idea of using the WRT54GS in front. The networking experts in here seem to like that box (though not necessarily with the S suffix). Ordinarily port forwarding is not required for Vonage operation.

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qwertyui
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: VT1005 can be placed in front of a router Reply with quote Back to top

I have a plain old Motorola VT1005 before a wireless router.

Motorola SB5120 > Motorola VT1005 > Netgear WGT624v2

I've had the VT1005 since Jan 2004 with no problems.
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0Voltage
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks very much. I wasn't aware that port forwarding wasn't normally necessary. I actually thought you needed to enable both port forwarding and QoS for an adapter to get optimal performance (meaning to avoid voice and call problems).

I can probably get away with enabling QoS if I have to, assuming I correctly understand how that works, but port forwarding would cause problems with my testing.

If port forwarding isn't needed, I'm going to switch to whichever PA Best Buy has in stock tomorrow. The D-Link VWR had some significant bugs and the Linksys WRTP54G I replaced it with has been locking up every few days (probably due to the amount I put through it...).

I guess Vonage not being able to force an upgrade on my router will be an added side benefit. I really wish I could have used an all-in-one device though. Now I'll need to share a plug on my UPS.

And if a PA doesn't work, I'll have to switch to one of the Voip providers who use PA's that sit in-front of a router. I can't believe the crap hardware Vonage uses. You'd think that with tech support so bad they would at least get reliable devices.
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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Port forwarding is not necessary. You only need OPEN ports, not forwarded ones.

As far as a device - the PAP2 series would be good (and small). I use my WRTP54G as a Vonage device only and it is a wonderful Vonage device, as long as you don't do something crazy like trying to use it as an actual ROUTER or anything. Wink

Read up on my self-help guides (link below) for some information on QoS you might find useful.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
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0Voltage
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks. I actually thought about just hooking the WRTP54G to my WRT54GS, but figured why pay extra for a router I'm not using. After the sign-up rebate, a PA will not cost me anything.

I wish I would have found your site back when I first got my Vonage router. You have an article on that stupid DNS Proxy feature which annoyed the hell out of me until I figured it out. In fact, you can add the D-Link VWR to the list of routers which use this by default. Why was such a buggy feature added to Vonage routers?

Based on your QoS page, my understanding of it is correct - but now I'm not sure whether or not to enable it. Is it safer to enable it ahead of time or should I just wait and see if there are any voice/call problems first? And if I should enable it, should I leave it set to auto (does a WRT54GS handle this well?) or configure it for manual?

I am frequently using BitTorrent and various P2P apps to transfer very large files and had no Voip problems with the D-Link VWR or Linksys WRTP54G - but I'm assuming those are already designed/configured to give Voip priority (which is another reason I wanted one)...
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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:

Thanks. I actually thought about just hooking the WRTP54G to my WRT54GS, but figured why pay extra for a router I'm not using. After the sign-up rebate, a PA will not cost me anything.


A good point. In my case, I already HAD the WRTP54G, and gave up on it as a router because it was not working for me. Since it would have cost me money to swap devices, I just used the WRTP54G as a Vonage-only device and called it a day.

Having said that, I still might consider a WRTP54G if I had to do it all over again. Its Vonage circuitry is quite excellent, and it also serves as a decent router when I am on the road, as long as I don't use P2P or need QoS. It's nice when I'm visiting my father and working from his house, for example (I telecommute), because my father does not have a router, so I can take the WRTP54G with me and be up and running with my Vonage line and my laptop in minutes.

Quote:

Based on your QoS page, my understanding of it is correct - but now I'm not sure whether or not to enable it. Is it safer to enable it ahead of time or should I just wait and see if there are any voice/call problems first? And if I should enable it, should I leave it set to auto (does a WRT54GS handle this well?) or configure it for manual?


I have found, based on my connection, that manual QoS works very well. I have not found any firmware that does well in "Auto" on my WRT54G v4. However, I also have a DOCSIS 1.0 modem, which I believe etches each packet on stone tablets and then attaches them to the backs of passing pterodactyls as its delivery system (in other words, my modem is using a "somewhat dated" communication protocol). Your mileage may vary.

As far as enabling it versus turning it off - QoS does slow down the entire connection. On a good router, that slowdown is not perceptible, perhaps, but it is there. If you don't need QoS, then you can turn it off. You won't grow warts in odd places or anything running without QoS, though you might find that you get choppy audio if you start using too much of your upstream bandwidth for non-Vonage applications.

If you have a 100mbps upstream pipe, turn that QoS off! Chances are the router would only slow you down anyway. Wink

Quote:
I am frequently using BitTorrent and various P2P apps to transfer very large files and had no Voip problems with the D-Link VWR or Linksys WRTP54G - but I'm assuming those are already designed/configured to give Voip priority (which is another reason I wanted one)...


The fact that you have actually managed to maintain a stable P2P connection using a WRTP54G, much less with some form of working QoS, has me stunned. Wink

Seriously, my WRTP54G crashed daily when I used BitTorrent, due to the connections table filling up. That is one of the things my WRT54Gv4 fixed for me.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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0Voltage
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well... I have a Linksys PAP2 (v2) now.

It certainly works, but I haven't had a chance to test just how well yet.

I have to say I'm not happy with the phone ports on it. The jacks do not click/lock in place. They go in deeper than with a normal port and are just "held" in place. I can pull out the cord just by tugging on it - I don't need to press down on the small plastic lever on the jack like with a normal port (not that I could since the lever sinks into the PAP2 port completely). The ethernet cable does click in normally though.

Is everyone elses PAP2 like this?

How does someone design this junk and keep their job?

Quote:
If you have a 100mbps upstream pipe, turn that QoS off! Chances are the router would only slow you down anyway


I'm guessing that's a typo... With a 100 mbps pipe I probably couldn't do much. 100 Mbps would be nice though. Razz

I have Comcast cable. 5 Mbps down and 364 kbps up. And surprisingly enough, usually even during peak hours, I actually do get those numbers.

The only oddity is that even when those numbers (or better) are reported by the Voip tests, I still sometimes only get 70-80% QoS (with no other network activity going on). If I run the test again right away, it's suddenly at 99%. Weird.

Quote:
The fact that you have actually managed to maintain a stable P2P connection using a WRTP54G, much less with some form of working QoS, has me stunned. Seriously, my WRTP54G crashed daily when I used BitTorrent, due to the connections table filling up. That is one of the things my WRT54Gv4 fixed for me.


Well that was another oddity for me. For some reason, the routers only crashed after everything was done, the systems shut down, and the routers were sitting idle.

For example, one day I BT-ed a 3.5 Gig DVD image of openSUSE while simultaneously viewing a 150 kbps (down) video stream on one system while e-mailing and surfing on another. During that time (about 4 hours?), I received and made some calls and there wasn't a single problem. Transfer speeds were excellent and the calls were clear. But the next morning, the router was a door stop and I had to power cycle it.

That's how it was each time. Total lock after sitting idle overnight.

I did, howver, have to reset it several times during the day to get bandwidth back. A few times, rather than lock up, it just cut bandwidth by 50% until recycled.
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