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spblat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: WRTP54G: bittorrent trouble? Reply with quote Back to top

Hi folks:

Lately I've been having trouble with bittorrent activity causing my WRTP54G to blow chunks, requiring a reset. (old locked thread: http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic6928.html)

I have found that if I limit my bittorrent client (Azureus) to 20 connections, rather than the default of over 100, it seems more stable (though in a few hours this may no longer be the case).

I spent about 20 minutes on the phone with what must have been the dumbest, newest, or most poorly trained customer care rep. Initially he tried to give me access to a new firmware file from a website that doesn't exist (http://config.vonage.net), then he eventually told me he remotely upgraded my router and I had nothing to worry about. My router didn't reset, nor did I see a new version number (still at 1.00.62), so it seems likely that he was lying to me to get to his next call. Nice.

Anyway, does anyone have any idea if 1.00.62 is the latest firmware for the Vonage version of the WRTP54G? Any other suggestions for keeping Bittorrent from hosing the router?

Cheers--
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Nidae213
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yep. That's the latest firmware version. New enough where they don't have an emulator out for the techs.
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Steve48
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The best way to keep bittorrent from hosing the WRTP54G is to put a good robust router in front of it and use the WRTP54G as just a phone adapter and for very light router duty. It's just not up to the task of handling demanding traffic densities.

For an earful on this subject, do a search of the forum, paying particular attention to writer Natehoy.

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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
For an earful on this subject, do a search of the forum, paying particular attention to writer Natehoy.


Stop, now I'm blushing. Smile

spblat -

Yes, you can get the WRTP54G running for longer periods with BitTorrent. In fact, my WRTP54G once lasted 48 hours before requiring a reboot, by limiting it to 10 simultaneous connections and 2 simultaneous outbound connection attempts. If you lower yours to, say, 5 simultaneous connections and 1 outbound connection attempt, you might even make a full 4 days... Of course at those speeds you'd never download anything...

Here's the problem:

Linksys routers use a function called a "NAT Table" to keep track of who wants to talk to who. In the WRTP54G, that "NAT Table" has the Linksys default of 2,048 entries. This is more than enough for normal, or even BitTorent, usage. However...

Connections that are active but have not had data across them for a while need to be recycled eventually. After all, not every application closes their data connections cleanly, and BitTorrent is one of the worst offenders in that regard. Linksys chose 5 days as their timeout, which is probably sufficient for web surfing, but doesn't come close to cutting it in the BitTorrent world.

So, your BitTorrent usage fills up the NAT table, there are no entries that can be recycled, and the NAT table is now full. When a computer tries to make a new connection, the router refuses, since there is no way of keeping track of that connection. All old connections work fine, but no new ones are allowed.

The solution is to lower that timeout period. This is a change to a single variable in the Linux kernel in the router. Unfortunately, you do not have that level of access to your router, so you can't change that number.

So, your only available option is... a new router.

Sorry.

I suggest the Linksys WRT54GL, which (when paired with aftermarket firmware and configured properly) works really, really well for both Vonage and BitTorrent.

(Steve48 - was that enough of an earful or should I blather on for a while? LOL)

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
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cryptmagic
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I had the same problem; every time I ran BitTorrent it would kill the router. I would need to reset it every time. I replaced the routers with a Dlink Gaming router, which has more ram. That is one of the reasons why it gives you are hard time. It doesn’t have enough memory. I got the standalone DLINK VTA adapter. I haven’t had any problems. Sure sometimes the internet goes down from excessive BitTorrent use, it rarely happens. The router can be rebooted from the administration screen. The firmware on the router is update more often, and they improve the router. The Voip adapter is seperate and Vonage can update the firmware and make it better. Sure it nice to keep to have one device, but then you will not have the best solution.
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Nidae213
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I actually just had this problem at home.

My boyfriend was torrenting and eating badnwidth, or so it seemed. My PC would have about 30-60 kbps to use for grapically intensive websites I do my art on and they would time out every time. As soon as my boyfriend tunred his PC off, never had a problem. When he went into the router's settings, the timeout was like 3 days!! We had like 1000-1200 dead connections that hadn't be recycled. The moment he turned it down to 15 seconds, bot of us get our premium internet bandwidth.
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cryptmagic
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Also limit your upload, i set it at 24kb otherwise it will eat it all up. Most routers regardless of the brand will crash if you run Bit Torrent non stop, my suggestion run it at nigh when you sleep and turn it of when you wake up. That way you dont slow down your browsing in the day, you get the best speeds at night, also it takes it some time for the router to refresh after turning bit torrent of.
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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
The moment he turned it down to 15 seconds, bot of us get our premium internet bandwidth.


15 seconds is much too short, in my opinion. That means that connections are idling out and being reused before they can even time out or be closed naturally.

I'd go for something around a minimum of 5 minutes. Personally, I have mine set to 4 hours, because I use a lot of Telnet, and I don't like having my sessions drop out quickly.

And on another topic...

Quote:
Also limit your upload, i set it at 24kb otherwise it will eat it all up. Most routers regardless of the brand will crash if you run Bit Torrent non stop, my suggestion run it at nigh when you sleep and turn it of when you wake up.


That is an effective strategy for solving QoS (packet prioritization) issues, since most of the Vonage routers don't have working QoS. And there are a lot of routers with the same sort of NAT problems the Linksys WRTP54G have. That's why I recommend the WRT54GL with aftermarket firmware.

My router's uptime record, with continuous BitTorrent load, is over 95 days. It would be a lot longer, actually, but I like to load up different firmwares to play around with them. Smile

Since I installed the router last October, I have never, ever had to reboot it except to load new firmware images. It has taken everything I've thrown at it, and not even flinched. And I can be running BitTorrent uploads while I pick up my Vonage line, and have crystal clear calls every time.

I have to "clamp down" my BitTorrent's download to about 120kbps (since QoS is not effective on inbound data), but my upload always runs unrestricted. My router takes care of that, dynamically slowing down my BitTorrent to "make room" for other stuff as needed.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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Nidae213
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I appreciate the helpful information, but I don't manage our home network. I leave that in the hands of my boyfriend. I do Vonage tech support for 10 hours a day, so I'm really not inclined to care about why my internet isn't work properly. And especially if I'm paying $70 per month for it. I'll pass the information along to him and see if anything goes different. All I've noticed is that I can check my messages and load what ever page I'm trying to access in a short time. Wink
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spblat
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks all. Say I get my hands on a more robust router which lacks Voip and WiFi capabilities. Can I do something like this?

Code:
           Internet
               |
          Cable Modem
               |
        QoS/NAT Router     Telephone
         /          \      /
       Switch       WRTP54G
       /               \
Wired clients          Wireless clients


1. Is this sensible?
2. Must I use the "WAN" port (as opposed to one of the switch ports) from the WRTP54G to the router?
3. If so, doesn't that mean my wireless clients will be double-NAT'd?
4. Is that OK?

Is there a simpler way? Goals: single NAT for everybody (including wireless), one DHCP server (on the QoS router) for everybody.

[EDITED TO ADD: Also, what will I need to tell the QoS component of my "real" router in order to prioritize voice traffic?]

Cheers,
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