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Post new topic   Reply to topic  Vonage® VoIP Forum - Vonage News, Reviews And Discussion » Vonage Stock
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ckudrna
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

audiotron wrote:
I just want to let people know that I was so disgusted in the way this whole IPO process went down, that I decided to cancel Vonage today and switch to Sun Rocket.

And, I still have no intention on paying for my 100 shares Vonage claims to ahve allocated to me in the DSP since I never agreed to have those shares allocated.

Woo Hoo Woo Hoo Hoo


I am also very disgusted with Vonage and the underwritters. I am strongly considering canceling my service, not because the service is bad, but because of the treatment of customers through this IPO. Poor performance is one thing, but down over 40% since the IPO is just disreguard for the customers. There is no possible way that Vonage thought that this stock was a suitable investment for anyone. Having the shares value cut in half in just weeks after the IPO with no knowledge at all of how the stock may perform is not acceptable. I have no doubt that class action suits will find that Vonage violated certain NASD rules with this issue.

A lackluster investment that loses some value is one thing, but an over 40% decline in value in 2 weeks makes me certain that management knew something that was not portrayed to investors, and that is illegal.
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blakadher
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ckudrna wrote:
Poor performance is one thing, but down over 40% since the IPO is just disreguard for the customers.

It's probably just me, but I don't see how this follows. What you seem to be implying is that Vonage wanted the value of its stock to plummet. I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me.

ckudrna wrote:
I have no doubt that class action suits will find that Vonage violated certain NASD rules with this issue.

I wonder if they did violate rules if that would simply result in a fine against Vonage? The whole thing about the prospectus not being available from the email and no one to contact on the voicemail message are a technicalities since they made it available and made you acknowledge that you'd read it before you could make a conditional offer. I could see those being fined, but not excusing DSP participants from their obligations.

In the end we'll just have to wait and see how it all falls out. It's pure speculation on all sides right now.

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ckudrna
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

blakadher wrote:
ckudrna wrote:
Poor performance is one thing, but down over 40% since the IPO is just disreguard for the customers.

It's probably just me, but I don't see how this follows. What you seem to be implying is that Vonage wanted the value of its stock to plummet. I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me.

ckudrna wrote:
I have no doubt that class action suits will find that Vonage violated certain NASD rules with this issue.

I wonder if they did violate rules if that would simply result in a fine against Vonage? The whole thing about the prospectus not being available from the email and no one to contact on the voicemail message are a technicalities since they made it available and made you acknowledge that you'd read it before you could make a conditional offer. I could see those being fined, but not excusing DSP participants from their obligations.

In the end we'll just have to wait and see how it all falls out. It's pure speculation on all sides right now.


I am not sure how to make this more clear. It is very obvious for anyone with any sort of financial background that this IPO was issued in order to provide an exit method for venture cap investors and upper management. The underwriting banks are smart people, they knew that this was the reason for the ipo. You rarely ever see such drastic falls in IPOs after issue (of course with some exceptions), because the underwriting banks are usually obligated to make markets in the stock. From what I have seen here, it does not appear that this is what is being done. All of these banks were the ones naked short selling VG right at the open. Call me crazy but that is a bit different than making a market in the stock..........

What I am saying is obvious to me, that this IPO was an exit method for original investors. The banks knew this, in no way was this ever supposed to be a stock with any sort of investment qualities to it, rather simply a vehicle to allow Vonage investors pre ipo to cash out of their positions before the company is bankrupt or bought out.

I think you will see in the coming weeks the NASD rules governing an IPO issue must be suitable for investment purposes have been violated and every single person who ever bought into this stock was screwed from the get go. Management and the banks all knew this.

I in no way said that they wanted to stock to plummet, I don't think they really care. Sure they would like it higher until they cash out, maybe that is why they pushed the DSP plan so hard to try to get Vonage fans (customers) to back the stock through the lockout period, because god knows that the underwriting banks are not making any sort of market for this, it is just sell sell sell all the way down the book. They wanted the stock to come to market so original investors could cash out, thats all they wanted. After investors have cashed out, they could care less about the stock. If they sell and do not have any money tied up in the stock, than what is their incentive to run the company well in order to maximize shareholder value. Right now VG looks like a classic case of the agency problem.

I am not talking about the little technicalities you point out. I am talking about breaking major NASD rules stating that a new issue has to be suitable for investment purposes. From my standpoint and what I know about this stock it looks as if an IPO was only meant as a method to allow previous investors to cash out. When all of you sent in your checks after VG fell all you were doing was sending money into previous investors so they can walk away and make a killing on this stock.

Vonage has no interest in the customers anymore, it is very obvious that they are going to get bought out or go bankrupt, so what do they care about maintaining relationships with current customers?
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rudedog40
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You seem to have all the knowledge of how and why this stock failed. So I'll ask you again - why did you buy into it in the first place? At what point did you determine this stock was going to be bad? You come up with all this expert information on why the stock tanked, whose making the money off of it, etc. But yet you still bought into the IPO. Why didn't you do this much research before agreeing to buy the stock? What were your expectations? Were you expecting the stock to double in a week, a month, a year? Was your plan to hold onto it for an extended period of time, or were you gonna flip it three days later?
I'm still skeptical about your statement that SB has bailed you out, and you owe nothing. I've searched all major investment sites, and there's no mention of this buyout. If SB did this, I'd expect front page coverage, something of an official statement saying they were doing this. Vonage has continually stated they would fight all lawsuits, and aggressive seek payment for the unpaid shares. Has anybody else beside chundra gotten this 'Free Pass' from paying their obligation?
Finally, if you have been paid off, why do you care anymore what happens with this IPO? You've gotten all your money back - you're done. You have nothing else to complain about. Unless of course you want to be one of these lawsuit plantiffs that was 'mentally distressed' by the outcome of this IPO. You got all your money back, but if you can suck something else out of the deal, you want it. Couldn't make a windfall with the stock purchase, so let's bleed something else out of Vonage in a class action lawsuit. Typical 'I want something for me' bottom feeder.
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dapster
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

gfoulks wrote:
As far as I know SB was the only broker to extend the payment period. Were your holdings with SB? Did you call the broker and discuss the issue with them?


Smith Barney sent an email to all of its "customers"/suckers to extend until June 13. See below on the forum board
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ckudrna
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

rudedog40 wrote:
You seem to have all the knowledge of how and why this stock failed. So I'll ask you again - why did you buy into it in the first place? At what point did you determine this stock was going to be bad? You come up with all this expert information on why the stock tanked, whose making the money off of it, etc. But yet you still bought into the IPO. Why didn't you do this much research before agreeing to buy the stock? What were your expectations? Were you expecting the stock to double in a week, a month, a year? Was your plan to hold onto it for an extended period of time, or were you gonna flip it three days later?
I'm still skeptical about your statement that SB has bailed you out, and you owe nothing. I've searched all major investment sites, and there's no mention of this buyout. If SB did this, I'd expect front page coverage, something of an official statement saying they were doing this. Vonage has continually stated they would fight all lawsuits, and aggressive seek payment for the unpaid shares. Has anybody else beside chundra gotten this 'Free Pass' from paying their obligation?
Finally, if you have been paid off, why do you care anymore what happens with this IPO? You've gotten all your money back - you're done. You have nothing else to complain about. Unless of course you want to be one of these lawsuit plantiffs that was 'mentally distressed' by the outcome of this IPO. You got all your money back, but if you can suck something else out of the deal, you want it. Couldn't make a windfall with the stock purchase, so let's bleed something else out of Vonage in a class action lawsuit. Typical 'I want something for me' bottom feeder.


You seem very angry with me for some reason. You have ever since I was one of the people who refused to pay. You paid like a sucker without waiting to see what comes of anything, and you got screwed. You are more than willing to call me a liar if it makes you feel better. I have no idea why SB told me it was a done deal, but they did, and that is what I am going off of. My broker told me that "we will leave it at that" and that my shares were bought out so I am not going to argue with them.

I am deeply sorry that you were moronic enough to send in money. I understand that you must be very upset that you lost money on this and other people have not. Challenging what I am saying because you don't want to believe that it is true makes me laugh, as I am the one off without any losses, you are the one who lost.

Judging from your join date, you are in no position to act as any sort of "authority" on Vonage, the IPO, or anything else relating to this board. I encourage you to learn a bit more about the IPO process and the NASD laws surrounding new issues. I also encourage you to do some reading on IPO historic performance. I think you will then learn that the prudent move would have been to buy VG and sell it 5 minutes after it opened. We have had lots of success with such activities. Take a look at some one day opening day charts of some IPOs this year.

To make sure you are doing your homework and not just pretending to know a thing about any of this, I would like you to answer the following questions,

1. What is the average one day return on IPOs since 1975?

2. What is the average 1 year return on IPOs during the same time period?

3. What was the current (6 month) IPO market like?

4. With the above questions answered, what do you think the prudent move would have been when you were eligible to participate in a new issue of a technology company?

5. Now knowing how the IPO performed, what would be some additional motives for upper management in terms of taking the company public?
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blakadher
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ckudrna wrote:
You rarely ever see such drastic falls in IPOs after issue (of course with some exceptions), because the underwriting banks are usually obligated to make markets in the stock.

This simply isn't true. The underwriter has absolutely no obligation to support a stock's price after IPO. This seems to be a common misconception on this forum - that somehow the IPO should have been a sure thing with little or no risk of loss.

The rest of what you posted is pure speculation with little, if any, factual backing.

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ckudrna
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

blakadher wrote:
ckudrna wrote:
You rarely ever see such drastic falls in IPOs after issue (of course with some exceptions), because the underwriting banks are usually obligated to make markets in the stock.

This simply isn't true. The underwriter has absolutely no obligation to support a stock's price after IPO. This seems to be a common misconception on this forum - that somehow the IPO should have been a sure thing with little or no risk of loss.

The rest of what you posted is pure speculation with little, if any, factual backing.


HA HA HA HA

What???

You are saying that an underwritter usually does not have an obligation to make a market in a stock after issue??

I take it you are not in the field of finance are you? Maybe a Dentist?
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blakadher
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ckudrna wrote:
blakadher wrote:
ckudrna wrote:
You rarely ever see such drastic falls in IPOs after issue (of course with some exceptions), because the underwriting banks are usually obligated to make markets in the stock.

This simply isn't true. The underwriter has absolutely no obligation to support a stock's price after IPO. This seems to be a common misconception on this forum - that somehow the IPO should have been a sure thing with little or no risk of loss.

The rest of what you posted is pure speculation with little, if any, factual backing.


HA HA HA HA

What???

You are saying that an underwritter usually does not have an obligation to make a market in a stock after issue??

I take it you are not in the field of finance are you? Maybe a Dentist?

I'm saying that an underwriter has absolutely no obligation to support a stock's price after issuance.

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rudedog40
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So that explains it. You're a money grubbing day trader that was looking to do a quick flip of the stocks and it backfired on you. And yes, I understand the concepts of IPO's, since I made quite a big profit with them during the Dot.com boom. You now claim to be this financial expert, yet you failed to read and see all the signs that this IPO was a failure from the getgo, and bought into it anyway. So it seems to me you're the moron that doesn't know anything about IPO's. Also for your information, I didn't get stuck buying my shares, BECAUSE I NEVER BOUGHT ANY. I cancelled my order the day before the IPO, AFTER READING THE STUPID THING WAS GONNA TANK. So whose the idiot now?
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