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Post new topic   Reply to topic  Vonage® VoIP Forum - Vonage News, Reviews And Discussion » Vonage Stock
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ckudrna
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Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

blakadher wrote:
ckudrna wrote:
blakadher wrote:
ckudrna wrote:
You rarely ever see such drastic falls in IPOs after issue (of course with some exceptions), because the underwriting banks are usually obligated to make markets in the stock.

This simply isn't true. The underwriter has absolutely no obligation to support a stock's price after IPO. This seems to be a common misconception on this forum - that somehow the IPO should have been a sure thing with little or no risk of loss.

The rest of what you posted is pure speculation with little, if any, factual backing.


HA HA HA HA

What???

You are saying that an underwritter usually does not have an obligation to make a market in a stock after issue??

I take it you are not in the field of finance are you? Maybe a Dentist?

I'm saying that an underwriter has absolutely no obligation to support a stock's price after issuance.


I'm saying that most IPO firm comittment offers call for the underwritters to make a market in the stock for a period after the issue.
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ckudrna
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

rudedog40 wrote:
So that explains it. You're a money grubbing day trader that was looking to do a quick flip of the stocks and it backfired on you. And yes, I understand the concepts of IPO's, since I made quite a big profit with them during the Dot.com boom. You now claim to be this financial expert, yet you failed to read and see all the signs that this IPO was a failure from the getgo, and bought into it anyway. So it seems to me you're the moron that doesn't know anything about IPO's. Also for your information, I didn't get stuck buying my shares, BECAUSE I NEVER BOUGHT ANY. I cancelled my order the day before the IPO, AFTER READING THE STUPID THING WAS GONNA TANK. So whose the idiot now?



You did not answer the questions. Just telling me that you made $xxx money during the "DOT.COM" days does not answer the questions I asked. I find it very very hard to believe that you are a client that was allocated IPO shares during the dot com days. Your general knowledge of this whole process leads me to believe that you simply traded equities after the IPO, but were never a part of the actual IPO process.

If you have participated in many IPOs in the past, you would know the normal course of action and how things flow. I am not saying that all IPOs are great successes, but all of them that I have been involved in do not have a host of class action suits threatened against the company within weeks of the offer. So if you are trying to tell me that VG is just like any other IPO you are wrong, and it is due to your lack of experience in the field, nothing more. Vonage is a very interesting case, and no matter what happens now it will go down as a huge failure and a lesson to all other companies going public - don't include your customers, it is not a good idea to mix family and business.

I certainly would not classify myself as an idiot. Let's map this out.

I placed a bet on the Vonage IPO. I owe the broker nothing. I was able to take on this risk with unlimited upside potential, and NO downside risk.

So it turns out that a bet on Vonage could have made me lots, but I did not lose anything. It is like gambling with the houses chips and I get to keep the winnings, but if i loose, hell, it was not my money.

Let's look at your situation- You did not bet on Vonage. You had no upside potential and also, like me, no realized downside loss.
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bigtuna
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Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The Vonage IPO was definitely not like any other IPO.

I used to have a Schwab Platinum account, which gave me access to IPO's on a regular basis during the dot-com days too. I was buying an IPO at least once a week.

The process with Schwab was, you filled out a request for X number of shares online, and downloaded the prospectus. When the IPO was priced, usually the night before it goes public, I would get a call from Schwab telling me that I have been allocated some number of shares, and they asked over the (recorded) phone, "You asked for X number of shares and have been allocated Y number of shares. Do you still want these shares?" If I verbally said "Yes" then there was a series of questions where I had to affirm verbally that I didn't work for the company, my relatives didn't work for the company, etc etc. I also had to have money in my Schwab account at that time, and the next morning when the stock traded, the money was immediately withdrawn.

The next difference was that you could not sell your IPO shares for 30 days. It was required that you hold them for 30 days before you could sell them. I made a boatload of money with IPO's I got from Schwab, and they were all handled the same exact way.

This Vonage IPO was executed completely differently.
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rudedog40
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Joined: May 30, 2006
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Why should I waste my time answering your juvenile and simplistic questions? Based on all the responses you've made on this topic, you apparently are no stock expert, and this IPO was probably the first one you were ever involved in. I did my investments into IPO's like bigtuna. However, before any stock was allocated to me, I had to have the funds in my account to cover the cost of the stock purchase.

You're bragging you took a risk and it cost you nothing. That's because SB are morons for buying you out. This was not like any normal IPO. I've never been involved, or heard of an IPO where you could purchase stocks on margin call, then have the ability to sell them the next day if you choose. All this before you actually paid for them. That was probably one of the major red flags of this IPO that caused it to fail in the first place.

As I've stated numerous times, you just got lucky. That is if I believe your story that SB let you off the hook. How can you make all the braggart staements how you 'cheated the system'? If this would have been a normal IPO transaction, you would have had to pay before you got the stocks, then you'd have to hold on to them for a minimukm of 30 days before you could sell them.


You're all mad because the stock tanked on opening day, and you couldn't call a broker to sell the 'phantom' stocks you owned. They probably didn't answer the phones, because they realized, 'Hey, this stock is dropping like a rock. We pick up the phone, we'll be dumping all this stock that no one has paid for at a loss. ' Who'd be taking the hit for the loss? The investments bankers and brokerage houses. If I were in their situation, I wouldn't have answered the calls either. Unfortunately, they're getting stuck with the stocks anyway because you stock experts found a loophole to avoid from having to stick to your committments.

So don't sit here an brag how you're a stock expert that got out of paying for a losing stock. You're a short time investor that did no research, didn't have a clue how this IPO worked, and just got lucky (supposedly) you didn't have to pay for this stock.
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audiotron
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Joined: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

No one is bragging. I consider myself lucky to have gotten out of paying. This is business and there was an opportunity to save $$$ and not lose it. I took that opportunity. To everyone that felt "bad" about not paying... I am not sure why you felt that way.

Anyway. As I said before, directly because of the issues aroung VG and their recent stock decline, I canceled my service (yesterday) and I switched to SunRocket.
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ckudrna
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Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I gurantee I have much more knowledge of this field than you do. I 100% gurantee this.

You have still not answwered my questions, and until you do, I am assuming that you do not know the answers and are in no position to speak about this. Feel free to answer the questions and I would be more than willing to speak with you further.

You were not a part of this IPO, so you need not comment on anything about it in this public forum. Your opinion or thoughts are not relevent.
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fanninja
Vonage Forum Senior
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Joined: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ckudrna wrote:
You did not answer the questions. Just telling me that you made $xxx money during the "DOT.COM" days does not answer the questions I asked. I find it very very hard to believe that you are a client that was allocated IPO shares during the dot com days. Your general knowledge of this whole process leads me to believe that you simply traded equities after the IPO, but were never a part of the actual IPO process.


This is interesting, especially since you asked me in a previous thread how it could be possible that Jeffrey Citron purchased his initial shares for pennies a share. In case you forgot, see http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic14413-10.html

and, as a follow-up, http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic14617.html
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bigtuna
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I've bought and sold probably a couple dozen IPO's and paid for every single one of them. In fact, it was never an issue, the money just came straight out of my Schwab account.

This Vonage IPO is the first time I ever did not pay for an IPO that I was allocated. It's also the first time that I was ever told I owed money for a stock where I didn't fund a trading account. Even margin trading had to be initially funded.

There were too many "fishy" things going on, inconsistencies, omissions, gross mistakes, that I decided it was justified to take my bet back and put a stop payment on my check. I'm glad I did.

I don't believe it would be wise to pay for this IPO while the mess is getting sorted out. Perhaps in the end, we'll have to pay for it. Perhaps not. It would seem foolhardy to pay for it now while things are still a mess and especially since we were deceived and misled with this IPO. You don't reward deception and fraud with your money. At least I don't.
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bigtuna
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

audiotron wrote:
Anyway. As I said before, directly because of the issues aroung VG and their recent stock decline, I canceled my service (yesterday) and I switched to SunRocket.


Please let us know about the SunRocket voice quality.

I tried Packet-8 before I got Vonage, and P8 was just horrible. There was no comparison and Vonage was clearly better.

I'm curious as to how SunRocket's voice quality stacks up to Vonage.
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ckudrna
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Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

fanninja wrote:
ckudrna wrote:
You did not answer the questions. Just telling me that you made $xxx money during the "DOT.COM" days does not answer the questions I asked. I find it very very hard to believe that you are a client that was allocated IPO shares during the dot com days. Your general knowledge of this whole process leads me to believe that you simply traded equities after the IPO, but were never a part of the actual IPO process.


This is interesting, especially since you asked me in a previous thread how it could be possible that Jeffrey Citron purchased his initial shares for pennies a share. In case you forgot, see http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic14413-10.html

and, as a follow-up, http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic14617.html


As Citron was the first investor in Vonage, I would assume that he did not have to pay anything for his shares, as he had an equity position with the firm since the start. His "shares" were already owned by him, as per his initial investment when Vonage first started. I am not sure where you are going with this. There is no argument about his stake, he was an original investor, he had shares in the company before they were publicly traded. No argument there. Just because shares are now floated to the public does not mean that they did not exist in the past? Most companies have a common stock / owners capital account on the right side of the balance sheet. Now that the shares are publicly traded, he has a way to sell off his position that is not simply an over the counter transaction, with buyers more difficult to find. Trading of VG on the NYSE has made the owners investments liquid, so they can sell off. I am arguing that this was a main reason behind this IPO.

Any additional purchases by himself would be subject to whatever sort of stock compensation plan the firm has, in terms of discounts. Otherwise, I would expect that he would purchase on the open market. I have not checked edgar to see if there has been any changes in beneficial ownership, so I am not sure if he purchased any additional shares. I have no idea why he would................
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