New Email from Smith Barney

Posts: 62 · Full Forum Member Joined: Apr 29, 2005 Posts: 62

KeithR wrote:

ckudrna wrote:

i am still not paying.

This entire process was fouled up by Vonage. it goes way beyond just the underwriters, and now includes all of management and their complete lack of foresight.

Good point. They should have foreseen that if the stock price went down, they would be dealing with a bunch of excuse-making deadbeats. Unfortunately, chasing riff-raff is a cost of doing business.

You fail to acknowledge that the way things went might be illegal. You are just upset that you did pay and all this information about possible illegalities are now out, after you are out a bunch of money.

I hope you feel better thinking that you are such a good citizen because you came through with an agreement that is more and more looking like certain aspects of it were illegal.

Posts: 6 · New Forum Member Joined: Jun 09, 2006 Posts: 6

ckudrna wrote:

You fail to acknowledge that the way things went might be illegal. You are just upset that you did pay and all this information about possible illegalities are now out, after you are out a bunch of money.

I hope you feel better thinking that you are such a good citizen because you came through with an agreement that is more and more looking like certain aspects of it were illegal.

I signed up, then opted out, Remember? You are forgetting to whom you replied.

It would make me feel better if you could say with a straight face that you would be seeking to unwind this deal if Vonage were trading at $50 right now. After all, illegal is illegal. If it is illegal for you to owe money on a falling stock, then it must also be illegal for you to owe money on a rising stock.

I will never apologize for my morality. I play everything the same whether I stand to win or lose. There is an ancient proverb that says, "Happy is the man that swears to his own hurt and does not change." That has always been my rule, and I have found the proverb to be true. I'm happier for living this way, and I don't plan to change.

I'm only 43 years old, but I have lived long enough to observe that whining, blaming, complainers never do well in life, and they drag down the people around them. When I run across people like this, I get rid of them. If they are clients, I fire them; if they are friends, I dump them; if they are relatives, I avoid them.

Successful people take the hit, laugh it off, and go on. They turn it into a great cocktail story and get some satisfaction that way.

You may -- and probably will -- do as you like. But one thing is important for you to know. Your reaction has more to do with the kind of person you are than with the facts at hand.

Posts: 62 · Full Forum Member Joined: Apr 29, 2005 Posts: 62

KeithR wrote:

ckudrna wrote:

You fail to acknowledge that the way things went might be illegal. You are just upset that you did pay and all this information about possible illegalities are now out, after you are out a bunch of money.

I hope you feel better thinking that you are such a good citizen because you came through with an agreement that is more and more looking like certain aspects of it were illegal.

I signed up, then opted out, Remember? You are forgetting to whom you replied.

It would make me feel better if you could say with a straight face that you would be seeking to unwind this deal if Vonage were trading at $50 right now. After all, illegal is illegal. If it is illegal for you to owe money on a falling stock, then it must also be illegal for you to owe money on a rising stock.

I will never apologize for my morality. I play everything the same whether I stand to win or lose. There is an ancient proverb that says, "Happy is the man that swears to his own hurt and does not change." That has always been my rule, and I have found the proverb to be true. I'm happier for living this way, and I don't plan to change.

I'm only 43 years old, but I have lived long enough to observe that whining, blaming, complainers never do well in life, and they drag down the people around them. When I run across people like this, I get rid of them. If they are clients, I fire them; if they are friends, I dump them; if they are relatives, I avoid them.

Successful people take the hit, laugh it off, and go on. They turn it into a great cocktail story and get some satisfaction that way.

You may -- and probably will -- do as you like. But one thing is important for you to know. Your reaction has more to do with the kind of person you are than with the facts at hand.

I could not finish your whole post, I was laughing to hard.

First off, I have no idea who you are. I certainly am not going to remember that you opted out or whatever you did. Your activities have no bearing in my life.

Secondly, it is the possible illegal and inappropiate acts that caused the stock price to fall. If these activities did not take place, then how would VG be trading at $50?

I am a member of the financial community, and have a bit more of an idea than you on what I think is the correct course of action, and what I think the result of my actions will be. I am very happy that this forum is blessed to have such a high ranking moral officer of the world participating in it.

If you did not participate in the DSP, you have no reason to be offering any advice or comments in this thread, as it concerns only those people who submitted an offer. I appreciate your interest in VG stock and the DSP program, but as you did not participate, your comments and input are of no importance.

Posts: 18 · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: False Pretenses

arsveloce wrote:

However, I find out that the artwork is a fake just before I sign my check. We have a contract, but the contract is made under false pretenses and is therefore unenforceable by the crook dealer.

I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY.

If a jury finds that there was no material misrepresentation, I will have a duty to uphold my end of this "bargain." Until then, hold on to your checks folks.

What "false pretenses"? You knew going in the price was going to be between $16 and$18 dollars so how can a jury find there was "material misrepresentation. Do you ask for your bet back in Las Vegas too?

WDB

Posts: 1389 · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: False Pretenses

WDBryant wrote:

arsveloce wrote:

However, I find out that the artwork is a fake just before I sign my check. We have a contract, but the contract is made under false pretenses and is therefore unenforceable by the crook dealer.

I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY.

If a jury finds that there was no material misrepresentation, I will have a duty to uphold my end of this "bargain." Until then, hold on to your checks folks.

What "false pretenses"? You knew going in the price was going to be between $16 and$18 dollars so how can a jury find there was "material misrepresentation. Do you ask for your bet back in Las Vegas too?

WDB

WDB, that was too good.

This thread just really makes me laugh. Thanks guys, I needed it!

Without saying how and why, you are obligated to pay for the shares that were allocated, even if you received less than requested. The moving back of the payment date is simply extensions filed with the exchanges on your behalf. Only individuals who meet capital or trading requirements are allowed to participate and purchase shares in an IPO. If you were able to purchase these shares, then you have demonstrated that you are "a sophisticated investor" and I find it very hard to believe that you did not know what you were getting into.

Good luck!

Posts: 243 · Vonage Forum Master Joined: Jan 18, 2004 Posts: 243

ckudrna wrote:

I could not finish your whole post, I was laughing to hard.

First off, I have no idea who you are. I certainly am not going to remember that you opted out or whatever you did. Your activities have no bearing in my life.

Secondly, it is the possible illegal and inappropiate acts that caused the stock price to fall. If these activities did not take place, then how would VG be trading at $50?

I am a member of the financial community, and have a bit more of an idea than you on what I think is the correct course of action, and what I think the result of my actions will be. I am very happy that this forum is blessed to have such a high ranking moral officer of the world participating in it.

If you did not participate in the DSP, you have no reason to be offering any advice or comments in this thread, as it concerns only those people who submitted an offer. I appreciate your interest in VG stock and the DSP program, but as you did not participate, your comments and input are of no importance.

Well ckudrna if your now the keeper of the thread maybe you should look at your current standing. By your definition you are also not allowed to comment because you did not participate in the DSP. You've not paid your commitment so your not part of the program. Therefore your comments are of no importance.

Please share with the group how you fit into the financial community. Why, so I can avoid the company you work for. Do others in your "financial" community know you do not pay your debts?

Posts: 33 · Vonage Forum Junior Joined: Jun 01, 2006 Posts: 33

the first mistake is calling it a "debt."

ITS NOT!!!

It is a transaction and one party believes (rightfully or wrongfully) that the other party did not hold up to its end of the bargain.

Posts: 243 · Vonage Forum Master Joined: Jan 18, 2004 Posts: 243

This is going to be last post on this issue. I wish everyone who has decided not pay the best of luck. I am one who never wishes ill on anybody. I will though take a moment to hopefully reach a couple of people who are on the fence still.

Just because someone on a forum such as this has tried the best they can to explain why they think they won't get in trouble for their actions, does not make it an excuse to also follow suit. Remember when you mother used to ask you, "If they told you to jump off the bridge, you would not do it, right?"

Just because class actions have been filed doesn't mean squat right now. To my knowledge none of them have lead plaintiffs so they are nothing more fillings with the court.

If you refuse to pay then that is a decision you've made. I ask you is the risk worth it? Seek console from an attorney before you decide you want to fight this. If you think your small potatoes and Vonage won't do something, think again. They've already made a public statement that they will fight any law suit vigorously. Think about all of those people who have been busted by the recording industry. They thought that they were small potatoes and look at what happened to them.

Get professional help and advice from a licensed attorney experienced in these matters.

Good Luck.

Posts: 6 · New Forum Member Joined: Jun 09, 2006 Posts: 6

audiotron wrote:

the first mistake is calling it a "debt."

ITS NOT!!!

It is a transaction and one party believes (rightfully or wrongfully) that the other party did not hold up to its end of the bargain.

Just what bargain did they not deliver on? They gave you the IPO. It looks to me like it is you who is not delivering.

Posts: 62 · Full Forum Member Joined: Apr 29, 2005 Posts: 62

I would like to make a request for this site.

I think that under the vonage stock ticker there should be a "% decline since IPO price". That would be just silly. Then we can all watch it go down to 100%, and maybe place some side bets and see who will come closest.