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dconnor
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Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Posts: 2264
Location: The Beach

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I Do not get it either.

Note:
Ping 1 is my router which as most Linksys routers is not pingable.
Ping 7 is a non-pingable router on my ISP (no matter where I trace to).

Tracing route to unknown151.111.234.205.defenderhosting.com [205.234.111.151]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 8 ms 10 ms 7 ms dstswr2-vlan2.rh.mlfdct.cv.net [67.83.230.34]
3 11 ms 8 ms 10 ms r2-ge12-0.mhe.whplny.cv.net [67.83.230.5]
4 53 ms 9 ms 9 ms r1-srp1-0.cr.whplny.cv.net [65.19.120.17]
5 19 ms 10 ms 52 ms 451be094.cst.lightpath.net [65.19.96.148]
6 19 ms 15 ms 16 ms r1-pos3-0.in.asbnva16.cv.net [65.19.97.226]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 19 ms 19 ms 18 ms unknown.iad.scnet.net [205.234.224.21]
9 19 ms 19 ms 27 ms ge2-7.b2.iad.scnet.net [66.225.244.210]
10 20 ms 20 ms 19 ms unknown.iad.scnet.net [66.225.244.194]
11 19 ms * 19 ms r03-8.iad.defenderhosting.com [205.234.111.18]
12 20 ms 18 ms 18 ms unknown151.111.234.205.defenderhosting.com [205.
234.111.151]

Trace complete.

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MrMark
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Joined: Apr 06, 2004
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I ran it about a dozen times and the number of hops seem to vary...most times there are 17 hops, like this:

Tracing route to unknown151.111.234.205.defenderhosting.com [205.234.111.151]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 9 ms 7 ms 22 ms 10.53.160.1
3 10 ms 7 ms 26 ms gig2-1.rsbgtxros-rtr1.houston.rr.com [24.28.101.81]
4 39 ms 8 ms 10 ms srp8-1.hstntxtid-rtr2.houston.rr.com [24.28.100.219]
5 9 ms 11 ms 15 ms gig12-0-0.hstntxtid-rtr4.houston.rr.com [24.93.34.98]
6 23 ms 24 ms 31 ms son0-1-0.dllatxl3-rtr1.texas.rr.com [24.93.33.217]
7 21 ms 36 ms 22 ms 4.79.180.65
8 22 ms 23 ms 23 ms ae-14-55.car4.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.68.122.144]
9 23 ms 23 ms 22 ms savvis-level3-ge.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.68.111.90]
10 23 ms 23 ms 23 ms dpr1-ge-2-2-0.dallasequinix.savvis.net [204.70.194.17]
11 28 ms 23 ms 26 ms bhr1-pos-5-0.fortworthda1.savvis.net [204.70.134.10]
12 33 ms 28 ms 30 ms dcr2-so-6-0-0.dallas.savvis.net [204.70.192.50]
13 25 ms 58 ms 61 ms dcr2-so-6-0-0.Atlanta.savvis.net [204.70.192.69]
14 59 ms 25 ms 58 ms bcs2-so-1-1-0.Washington.savvis.net [204.70.192.58]
15 59 ms 59 ms 59 ms 208.173.50.154
16 58 ms 59 ms 64 ms r03-8.iad.defenderhosting.com [205.234.111.18]
17 57 ms 59 ms 56 ms unknown151.111.234.205.defenderhosting.com [205.234.111.151]

Trace complete.


But I also saw several traces with 18 or 19 hops, and a few with 20 hops.
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MrMark
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Joined: Apr 06, 2004
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

dconnor wrote:
...As for your ISP, I would provide them the programmers comments above and the detailed results that you can obtain by pressing the "i" key after the test is complete.

I hope this helps.


I am having a little trouble visualizing the trouble call...what am I going to say to the (presumably) clueless person who answers the phone at Time Warner?

"Hi, I have some comments from a programmer..." ?
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Julianp
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Joined: Jun 03, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MrMark wrote:
dconnor wrote:
...As for your ISP, I would provide them the programmers comments above and the detailed results that you can obtain by pressing the "i" key after the test is complete.

I hope this helps.


I am having a little trouble visualizing the trouble call...what am I going to say to the (presumably) clueless person who answers the phone at Time Warner?

"Hi, I have some comments from a programmer..." ?


Yes that is the tough one, unfortunately sympathy doesn't help, but I sympathize. The issue with ISPs, and I have had this problem many times, is that they deal with a considerable number of problem calls of this nature, the expression 'shell shocked" is quite appropriate. The big issue is always separating 'is it us' or 'is it you' and the customer is always the first choice for being wrong (sadly). Regardless of how good or bad the ISPs customer service and support is they need clear evidence and that is hard to get. The test results start to provide this however the test audit report provides the detail at the TCP level and provides clues to issues like router throttling, congestion and poor routing. Unfortunately you need a PHD in computer science to read the audit but the evidence is there. For Voip the only issue is latency, any realtime application is dependent on consistent latency/RTT. Strangely latency is seldom challenged by the customer whereas it is the first thing I look for. An RTT that is inconsistent or too high for the length of the route is often overlooked. 60ms 19 hops is very good, I would be delighted with that so long as it was for 98% of the time. Also what is good for one route may be lousy for another. An ISP is responsible for the quality of its peering partners but again this sledom gets challenged or reviewed by the consumer.

One important approache is for the consumer to profile his/her connection over a full 24 hours, workdays and weekends. This provides both the baseline for future comparison to highlight change and provides the clues for congestion issues. You will be surprised how many connections run well at 4am but not at 10am. Pointing this out to the ISP is very damning evidence. It takes effort yes but it is a good exercise if you have quality issues. I am sorry that sympathy is not much help.
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MrMark
Vonage Forum Senior
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Joined: Apr 06, 2004
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

What tool would one use to profile the connection?
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Julianp
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: Jun 03, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MrMark wrote:
What tool would one use to profile the connection?


That is a good question. What I do is run the speed tester every 5 minutes for a number of days and then retirve the data from the database in graphic or tabular form. The speed tester does provide that capability but for obvious usage reasons it is not setup to provide that as demand could/would be excessive.
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MrMark
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Joined: Apr 06, 2004
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I was thinking that the test had been restricted to once per day...is that not true?
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scerruti
Vonage Forum MVM
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Joined: Feb 05, 2005
Posts: 1424
Location: Carlsbad, CA (finally)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MrMark wrote:
What tool would one use to profile the connection?


Ping Plotter

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Julianp
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: Jun 03, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MrMark wrote:
I was thinking that the test had been restricted to once per day...is that not true?

Currently no restrictions, but I believ it will eventually be 1 per hour.
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MrMark
Vonage Forum Senior
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Joined: Apr 06, 2004
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well...some might say I'm nuts, but even so, I don't think I am crazy enough to do 24/7 testing using a manual test. It would need to be automated.

I already own PingPlotter, if that will do the job. I would just need to know what to ping, and what parameters to use.
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