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nshreiber
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Joined: May 23, 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I had the same thought. I'm not sure what to do-- I suppose I could be in contact with newspapers/television stations/whatnot? I don't want to be unnecessarily aggressive or nasty to Vonage; I truly do not wish them or their underwriters any ill-will.

Yet this is a real problem. It was a real glitch that has affected myself and a handful of others that I've come across on the internet, without even really trying that hard to find them. Who knows how many people this has affected who don't yet know about it? If you think about the types of people who wouldn't check out these forums...well, as you were intimating above...those are exactly the sort of types who would never again login to www.vonageipo.com once they had been told they were allocated zero shares. As I've stated previously, I relogged on again on a whim, after a long day of work when I was just sort of surfing around the internet in a bored and sleepy way. (I wish someone had gotten a picture of my face when I saw the new allotment screen...holy moly, I'm sure I looked hysterical. I WAS hysterical, though not in the fun way.)

By the way, I believe the company who hosted the www.vonageipo.com is www.idealhost.com. This isn't verified, but the SB representative I spoke with did refer to the website www.vonageipo.com as "Ideal", and www.idealhost.com is what I've found online... I tried to call them. Their telephone number? Disconnected.

And the questions keep piling on up.

Dconnor-- with full respect for being the admin-- it wasn't a cache problem. It was a problem with the programming of the website. Hands down, no debate about it. I'm not trying to shoot any messenger, I'm a pacifist. But of all the questions that need answering, "was it a cache problem" definitely and definitively is not one of them. I promise.

Happy holiday weekend everyone- be safe and well.

N
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twinspop
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: May 25, 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: If you don't debate, don't offer nonsense Reply with quote Back to top

dconnor wrote:
Second: I am sorry, but based on the following info it appears to have been cache issue:

Log off and back on vonageipo.com and you will probalby see an allocation.


DConner, please stop. This isn't a web browser cache issue. You just couldn't be more wrong.

The problem was very likely, as someone with some tech experience opined, a database issue on the backend. For example, they turned on the access flag before the DB was populated. Sure plenty of people logged in again or refreshed their browser to fix, but that was likely pure timing. It very well might have even been a cookie issue. Still, that's not a cache issue. You're lacking a fundamental understanding of what caching is.

It's not a browser cache issue. I'd be willing to bet my 13+ years in the internet business on it. Please stop.
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nighthawk
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: May 25, 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Well..... Reply with quote Back to top

sgroi135 wrote:
I have seen all those posts. But people who are on these boards might have seen them. But what about all the people who bought the stock and never visited this site.

I have a feeling that if this many people out of the members of the forum had the problem then you have to think how many that have not visited this site had the same problem.

Something should be done about this...


It is disturbing, and i concur, i wonder how many people will be charged for stock they dont even realize they own? It would be like making a car payment, and not even driving it.
it is unfortunate, but I truly dont believe anything will be done.
there is too much grey area, whether or not intentional, the contract they signed is all that is needed for the brokerage to collect.
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nighthawk
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: May 25, 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: If you don't debate, don't offer nonsense Reply with quote Back to top

dconnor wrote:
nighthawk wrote:
Will23 wrote:
Dconnor,

Please don't offer nonsense if you are not prepared to back it up. This is definitely not a "refresh" issue as so clearly pointed out by previous posters. Vonage's attempt to lure investors has been rife with deception from the outset. Sure, this website error may be unintentional, but it is Vonage's responsibility. Please don't common this board (I don't care if you are the admin) schilling for Vonage and then excuse yourself from the debate. That is just pathetic.


I couldnt agree with you more Will, maybe it was a blessing in disguise that I wasnt able to get the shares I had proposed to acquire at the begining of this month.
Mr. Conner,
if this site IS IN FACT not endorsed, sponsored, provided, owned or otherwise controlled by Vonage, stop trying to lobby for the company.
What is wrong is wrong, and you know it, its just a matter of time before this comes to a head.


LOL, ok, back in:

First: Don't shoot the messenger here. I feel awful for anyone who might have had this happen to them.

Second: I am sorry, but based on the following info it appears to have been cache issue:

Log off and back on vonageipo.com and you will probalby see an allocation.

You need to log off and back on the vonageipo.com site. All requests for 2000 were filled with 500.

You say you requested 1600 you should have been allocated 400. If you log off and back on the vonageipo.com web site you should see the 400 allocation.

It did not help to go back and resign, I still got 0. But after rebooting I went back in and saw 400 shares.


Daniel,
Wouldn't it be prudent for someone who is directly involved with Vonage to investigate this "issue"? Then you could post the result on your website? From what I have seen, Vonage couldn't care less, or one of the spinners would be in damage control mode,, trying to ease everyones minds, certainly before the media got involved, NOW THAT WOULD BE A TRAGEDY. . .it almost feels as though the wagons are already starting to circle, and with no response from Vonage, its not looking good, and as I mentioned earlier, there is some unflattering history with ONE of the top brass in this company, even if he isn't "in the drivers seat"...
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dconnor
Site Admin
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Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Posts: 2263
Location: The Beach

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

nighthawk: I am not saying that it is going to happen (I do not speak for Vonage) however; it would not surprise me if the few people that have reported this problem get pinged from someone that can help them.

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jeffml
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Joined: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: If you don't debate, don't offer nonsense Reply with quote Back to top

dconnor wrote:
Second: I am sorry, but based on the following info it appears to have been cache issue:

For a browser to cache a page, the page first has to come from the website. That means the website gave out the wrong info at some point. Sure it was changed later but once vonageipo.com told people they didn't get shares why would people think the site was lying and log back in to check again?

I think you are missing the fundamental piece of the puzzle:
Here is the order of pages seen by those affected:

Page A: "Shares will be allocated later"
Page B: "Your Allocation: 0 Shares at $17", "You Owe : $0"
Page C: "Your Allocation: 100", "You Owe : $1,700"

Once the website changed the page from A to B, there is no reason to come back later unless of course you hear about this snafu from a friend, or read about it on the forum. They already told you that not everyone would get shares.

From what I can tell, you are saying that either:
- Page B never existed which is contradictory to what everyone else is saying
- or even though vonageipo.com did change the site from Page A to Page B, people should have not trusted it and magically known to logout and log back in to see the correct info.

I'm hoping it isn't either of those because the first option goes against you saying that it was cached, and the second one is absurd.

Help us out dconner, the things you are saying aren't logical and it is starting to sound (unintentionally) like you are calling your forum users liars. I doubt that is how you really feel or meant it to come across.
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nighthawk
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: May 25, 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

dconnor wrote:
nighthawk: I am not saying that it is going to happen (I do not speak for Vonage) however; it would not surprise me if the few people that have reported this problem get pinged from someone that can help them.


Daniel,
Hopefully, someone comes to the rescue, i can't imagine this would be good for business...
have a great weekend~
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jeffml
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Joined: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Well..... Reply with quote Back to top

nighthawk wrote:
the contract they signed is all that is needed for the brokerage to collect.

Interestingly enough, the contract was signed through the same website that told them they were allocated 0 shares.

From the Terms and Conditions of the Vonage Customer Directed Share Program
.....
"In that case, on the date the initial public offering price is set, an acceptance notification will be posted to this website, which will include a final summary of the terms of the offering and a notification of the number of shares you have been allocated to purchase through the Vonage Customer Directed Share Program."
.....
"If your conditional offer is accepted, you will be obligated to pay for the shares you are allocated."

It seems fairly clear. At the point they posted the 0 share allocation notification, you are obligated for 0 shares. They defined that there would be a single allocation notice and it will be distributed through the website. No where does it state that they have the abiity to change the number of shares allocated after the fact or have multiple notifications.

The underwriters (or their insurance policy) will have to eat the cost of this problem.
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nighthawk
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: May 25, 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Well..... Reply with quote Back to top

jeffml wrote:
nighthawk wrote:
the contract they signed is all that is needed for the brokerage to collect.

Interestingly enough, the contract was signed through the same website that told them they were allocated 0 shares.

From the Terms and Conditions of the Vonage Customer Directed Share Program
.....
"In that case, on the date the initial public offering price is set, an acceptance notification will be posted to this website, which will include a final summary of the terms of the offering and a notification of the number of shares you have been allocated to purchase through the Vonage Customer Directed Share Program."
.....
"If your conditional offer is accepted, you will be obligated to pay for the shares you are allocated."

It seems fairly clear. At the point they posted the 0 share allocation notification, you are obligated for 0 shares. They defined that there would be a single allocation notice and it will be distributed through the website. No where does it state that they have the abiity to change the number of shares allocated after the fact or have multiple notifications.

The underwriters (or their insurance policy) will have to eat the cost of this problem.


Well, that would be a good thing right?
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dconnor
Site Admin
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Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Posts: 2263
Location: The Beach

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:25 am    Post subject: Re: If you don't debate, don't offer nonsense Reply with quote Back to top

twinspop wrote:


DConner, please stop. This isn't a web browser cache issue. You just couldn't be more wrong.

The problem was very likely, as someone with some tech experience opined, a database issue on the backend. For example, they turned on the access flag before the DB was populated. Sure plenty of people logged in again or refreshed their browser to fix, but that was likely pure timing. It very well might have even been a cookie issue. Still, that's not a cache issue. You're lacking a fundamental understanding of what caching is.

It's not a browser cache issue. I'd be willing to bet my 13+ years in the internet business on it. Please stop.


Twinspop: I will stop after this post, but only by my own accord, ok?
I thank you in advance for the courtesy.

I respect your experience. I never doubt that a member might just know a little bit more than me. Smile

Please allow me to address your points:

Timing? Hours went by from post to post. Timing is not a factor, IMHO.

I understand what people saw, let me put it into an order for you:

It was reported by me at 5:27pm EST that:

Your Allocation : The allocations have not been made. Please check back at 11:59 PM on 5/23/2006 was being displayed.

Shortly after that the message changed to: Your Allocation : The allocations have not been made. Please check back soon.

At both times, it also stated that you had currently been allocated "0" shares.

Then at 8.00PM +/- EST the shares were allocated.

It was quickly reported If you think you got ZERO - Make sure you log off and back on www.vonageipo.com. Allocations do not show up if you just refresh the page.

Mined you, at every point when people viewed: "allocated "0" shares" (not a direct quote) also displayed in bold red was this direct quote:
Your Allocation : The allocations have not been made. Please check back soon.

So I am having a hard time understanding that the only thing it took to see your allocations (as reported by everyone that reported on this issue) was to logout-login is not/was not a cache issue. Again, this is over a period of several hour, not just "likely pure timing."

So, with those comments I would like to get back to my policy of not openly debating on my own site.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I respect yours - please offer me the same.

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