International Rates Change Again (5/28) - Mostly Up!!!

Posts: 37 · Vonage Forum Junior Joined: Dec 02, 2003 Posts: 37

It looks like it is an across-the-board increase on international rates this time. UK and Hong Kong went from 0.02 to 0.03, Taiwan went from 0.05 to 0.06, for example. Other places like India seems to have higher increases

Some would argue it is just a few cents so don't be cheap. As many have stated that people make decision on Vonage based on the rates they offer. Many come to Vonage because they realize they will have savings based on their volume. So, any rate change changes the calculation of the decision to go with Vonage and, for high volume callers, the money adds up.

Yes, they say "rate subject to change without notice". Why don't they just send out e-mails to notify their customers. Would that be something so hard to do in the interest of customer satisfaction/service?

I think many of us don't mind the increase - it is the way they are doing the increases. If they can send e-mail for rate drops, why can't they do so for rate increases.

You know, it is behavior like this that invites regulation.

Steven

Posts: 6 · New Forum Member Joined: May 29, 2004 Posts: 6

I agree. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Now, I need to watch my calls to India!

Posts: 37 · Vonage Forum Junior Joined: Dec 02, 2003 Posts: 37

It is really more of a customer service/satisfaction issue for Vonage and a consumers' right issue for us.

Sometimes I am amazed to hear some of the overly pro-Vonage statements here. Many of us are early adpoters to new technology. We love the technology, the savings and the features. However, it does not mean we should blindly sacrafice our rights as consumers for the "coolness". Others come to Vonage because of the price - I think as VoIP becomes more non-techie friendly, this segment will increase. In that case, price is even more important for the customers.

We, the consumers, need to push for companies to serve us right. Just because the terms and conditions say they can change rates without notice, it does not mean they should do that. It is simply good customer service to let your regular customers know and explain the reason when prices increase. Not asking for advanticed notification - just any kind of notification - even on the same day. It is OK if their cost of doing business changes and they need to modify their prices - just don't do it without notification!

You think all these people who get a 50% higher international bill than they expected will not feel cheated and complain? How would those people feel if Vonage says "too bad, we told you it is subject to change without notice"? If they are informed when it happens, they can modify their usage pattern and don't get caught in surprise when they get the bill. For example, maybe two love birds do not mind staying on the line without saying a word for hours at 0.02/minute but not 0.03/minute.

I think none of us want regulation for Vonage and the extra taxes/fees it will bring. I believe it will happen sooner or later but that is a different subject. I am just cautioning that behavior like this will only make regulation happen sooner than later because it will give the regulators/competitors more justification.

Steven

Posts: 183 · Vonage Forum Master Joined: May 05, 2004 Posts: 183

username wrote:

It is really more of a customer service/satisfaction issue for Vonage and a consumers' right issue for us.

"Consumers' rights?" Right to do what, read and understand Terms of Service? Who here is NOT an adult and unable to comprehend plain english? From the pity party it seems that many are just little kids that need their noses wiped and their tears dried.

Quote:

Sometimes I am amazed to hear some of the overly pro-Vonage statements here.

Huh? I think you're mistaking "pro-responsibility" for pro-Vonage. Doesn't matter if it's Vonage or obeying a law, rules and Terms of Service are plain to see and understand, but it is YOUR responsibility to deal with them.

Quote:

Many of us are early adpoters to new technology. We love the technology, the savings and the features. However, it does not mean we should blindly sacrafice our rights as consumers for the "coolness".

WHAT "RIGHTS?" The right to understand what you're getting into, as an adult? THAT is a right I most certainly want to preserve, not some pseudo-right to be "safe from things I should've taken the time to read and understand." I sort of gave up on that when I moved out of my parents' house.

Quote:

Others come to Vonage because of the price - I think as VoIP becomes more non-techie friendly, this segment will increase. In that case, price is even more important for the customers.

Yeah, that's the way the free market operates. Some people are price driven, others make choices based on other factors more significant to them. Pretty nice, isn't it?

Quote:

We, the consumers, need to push for companies to serve us right. Just because the terms and conditions say they can change rates without notice, it does not mean they should do that. It is simply good customer service to let your regular customers know and explain the reason when prices increase. Not asking for advanticed notification - just any kind of notification - even on the same day. It is OK if their cost of doing business changes and they need to modify their prices - just don't do it without notification!

So, given the fact that they CLEARLY state that prices can be changed without notice, did YOU sign up with them? Explain that ONE thing, please. WHY did you sign up for terms that were unacceptable to you? Why?

I don't disagree that maybe those terms aren't as nice as possible, but I accept them as written.

Why did YOU sign up if you found them unaccptable?

Quote:

You think all these people who get a 50% higher international bill than they expected will not feel cheated and complain? How would those people feel if Vonage says "too bad, we told you it is subject to change without notice"? If they are informed when it happens, they can modify their usage pattern and don't get caught in surprise when they get the bill. For example, maybe two love birds do not mind staying on the line without saying a word for hours at 0.02/minute but not 0.03/minute.

Maybe, maybe not. So WHY do people sign up for things they don't find acceptable, but then feel justified in complaining later?

You know, it is "too bad" if people don't read, like adults, what they sign up for. Too bad, indeed, that they then whine later. Dont' like it? Drop Vonage.

Quote:

I think none of us want regulation for Vonage and the extra taxes/fees it will bring. I believe it will happen sooner or later but that is a different subject. I am just cautioning that behavior like this will only make regulation happen sooner than later because it will give the regulators/competitors more justification.

Steven

So let the market decide and just go to another carrier. Please.

Posts: 183 · Vonage Forum Master Joined: May 05, 2004 Posts: 183

Very true, Moto. It's just that I get frustrated when people who decide something isn't to their liking first scream "REGULATE!" instead of thinking through things clearly.

Posts: 188 · Vonage Forum Master Joined: Mar 07, 2004 Posts: 188

OK, you guys have slayed the evil doers. Time for a group hug. I think from now on "it" should be refered to as the "R-word". I have reread username and iHateBellsouth's posts and it is my humble personal opinion that they were not trying to start a Vonage B*tch Session. I think that they were just trying to point out an area where Vonage could improve Customer Relations. Unfortunatly, none of us, as far as I know, works for Vonage Customer Relations. Therefore, instead of bringing up these sugestions here in this forum, they should call Vonage and make their sugestions directly to them. I have found out from personal experiance that Vonage is very open to good sugestion. They were already looking into the ones that I was concerned about. I totaly agree that the best way to mess up a good thing is to R-word it. That would be playing right into the big telco hands. One good thing is that the FCC Chairman (Mr. Powell) is a Vonage Evangilist, he talked Leo Laport (formerly of TechTV) into signing up for Vonage. So I think that as long as he is in that position Vonage and other Viops will be safe. WE DO NOT WANT THE R-WORD. Anytime anyone feels like bringing it up they should think about how much they are saving over the big telcos and think twice about mentioning it.

Posts: 21 · Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 3:22 pm Post subject:

heh... seen that episode too

In The Wall Street Journal an artical, "It looks like a duck. Or does it?" talks about these possible regulations.
Luckly Mr. Powell doesnt want to strangle the young companies that are voip based with regulations. He wants to wait and see how companies like vonage progress.

Posts: 61 · Full Forum Member Joined: Jan 29, 2004 Posts: 61

The Net of all this...
If your spending a lot on International calls then I would stay informed this is your responsibility. Vonage makes this easy...they only have one rate sheet to look at. Oh and by the way it is .09 to .18 Cpm to India on Vonage. I looked this up on MCI just to be fair and with an internation plan that is $4 per month it is still .33cpm. 2to3 times vonage. (by the way they call this a "Great Low Rate"

Additionally Vonage just dropped the rates for unlimited plan by $5 which in the origional case above mentioning a 1cent increase gives a a buffer of over 8 hours before your bill would go up higher than previous months.

And to be clear I would say yes that I am on the Vonage Band Wagon. But that is after much hard work on my end to get the service working. Lets not become Lazy consumers. If you have enough time to post on this BB then you should have enough to book mark the International rates page and stay informed.

Posts: 1 · New Forum Member Joined: Jun 08, 2004 Posts: 1

Everyone has different needs. No need for arrogant name calling. People complaining about international rates going up are already actively monitoring vonage rates. Their complaints are their reactions. Customer/financial market will eventually catch up if a lot of people have negative reactions to vonage international rates. In the meantime, vonage has to make money somehow. Interestingly though, a lot of phone cards and even packet8.com VoIP service have over sometimes 70% cheaper rates. So, vonage's international rates are not competitive at all.

Posts: 5 · New Forum Member Joined: Jun 08, 2004 Posts: 5

Ok ok... most of us realize that we agree our "rights" away in this case (and a lot of other cases). However, even without the "right" to be informed about a rate change, and within full agreement of the Terms of Service, I don't think anybody here would think it would be fair for the "rate change without notice" to suddenly jump to $2 per minute. It looks like that possibility is within Vonage's "right" to do, and to enforce full payment on those calls. On the other hand, we shouldn't reasonably be expected to check the rate sheet every time we want to make a call in order to make sure we're paying the rate we think we're paying.

Now, I'm being overly one sided here because I feel the backlash was a little strong. What people are saying, is that as responsible company, Vonage should inform people of rate changes, even though the TOS do not require them to. I don't think many people are actually upset about the 1 cent change, but rather the lack of information.

(whine mode on)
Random Evil example: SprintPCS screwed me a few months ago. I have a shared minute plan, with free calls to other SprintPCS phones. Their usage tracker has always been wrong by hundreds of minutes on my account because it would count the free calls against my plan. So it would seem that I ran out of minutes half way through the month. Knowing this, I would guestimate how many minutes I had used. Two months ago, they fixed the tracker in the middle of the month without notice. The usage tracker said about 620 minutes out of my 500 minute plan. Any other month I would actually be billed for usage well within my 500 minutes. However, they changed the tracker without notice. No amount of **** to anybody there would get me a credit for any part of the extra $50 they charged me that month. I'm still waiting for a call back (a month later) from the supervisor that was supposed to call back within 2 business days. Their whole argument is that they are not responsible for the accuracy of their usage estimate per the Terms of Service. Oh well...
(whine mode off)